Butter milk wheat flour fermentation. I’ve been baking bread for decades and am always searching for a new “sour” method. 25% flour/75% buttermilk. Gently warm the butter milk to 25C -27C. This is a critical step. Mix in a 500ml mason jar and cover. I have an air lock on mine but the jar can be sealed so as to allow gas to escape. I’m fortunate enough to live in an area that supplies butter milk with a very active live culture.
The wild yeasts will start forming alcohol until the Lactic Acid bacteria creates enough Lactic Acid to cease the yeast production. Keep in a warm spot. In approximately 5-7 days, the food source runs out and there will be a layer of Supernatant (The liquid above the settled solids). The supernatant is what you want. Pour that off and discard the spent flour.
Add a small amount or as much as you desire of this to your bread recipe. Start with a small amount at first. Move over sour dough. A new kind of sour is here.
Wouldn’t one have to add yeast to the dough and what kind of different sour is this bringing? Why would I use this in place of my sourdough which has wonderful flavour? And not only one kind of sour either. One can use sourdough in many different ways resulting from tangy to to yeasty. I’m sure it’s a good way to bring a sourdough flavour to yeasted doughs like CLAS but it’s basically mock sourdough by adding the lactic acid component to a yeasted bread. Why should I put aside my sourdough only to make a yeasted bread with added tang? I’m sure ways like these are very good for those who don’t wish to make or maintain a starter and still get that tangy flavour but if you have a starter it’s really not a problem.
But thank you for the method all the same. I’ll try it one day when I buy some buttermilk. It won’t replace my sourdough but can be an interesting addition to my baking. Have you tried kefir for both the lactic acid and yeast? Kefir alone can leaven bread.
The idea is to obtain a very unique and different flavour. If you bake one of these, I’m sure you will agree. No need to discard the sour dough methods.
I have in the past, fermented flour in my yoghurt maker using store bought probiotics. That is also a very sour bread. Traditional sour dough is not “sour” but rather, a method held by many aficionados, sticking with the traditional methods. I prefer “sour” and this method provides what I want. Besides, taking the time (5-7 days) should make it an interesting project.
Sourdough can be tangy, sour or yeasty and it’s all in the way the starter is managed and how it’s used in the final dough but thank you for your technique. It has definitely sparked my interest and now i’m intrigued. I feel an experiment on the way and know where I can buy some buttermilk. Always interested in new ideas.
Thank you. I can’t describe the different flavour, sour etc; but it sure is different. I wanted to get the fermentation product(s) from this method from the flour. Perhaps if you try this, you will be able to offer a suggestion as to the description of the flavour. Thanks again. Abe
I was going to ask you for a sample recipe. So is it as simple as converting a yeast recipe by just replacing some of the water with supernatant?
Sample Recipe:
500g bread flour
350g water
10g salt
7g yeast
Then how much should I use for my first try? 300g water + 50g supernatant? How sour will that be? And can I store the rest in the fridge? Can it be kept going like a starter? Or when it runs out do I have to make more?
One of my favorite recipes is a sourdough multigrain bread with about 75% of the water replaced with buttermilk. It adds a nice sour similar to the original San Francisco sourdough bread I used to eat in the 60’s.
Richard
Never apologize for the questions. We’re all here for the same purpose and that is to create new and wonderful recipes that I’m happy to be a part of.
50gm would be approximately 8% of the total volume. I would suggest starting with that value. That will give you a very sour taste. The liquid can be kept in the refrigerator where the culture will cease to grow but as it is an acid, it should keep for quite some time and used as desired.
As far as keeping it going like a starter, it could probably be accomplished. Perhaps using this liquid to create and maintain a “Sour Dough” starter would work? It sure would be different. I’ve never produced the flavours (sour) that I’m looking for with the traditional sour dough recipes so perhaps this will work.
My hobby is in fermentation and I have taught basic courses on food ferments as well as producing my own vinegars. I’m retired now but you can probably google “Mr. Vinegar” which was my small home based business. 19 International awards
Cheers
Thanks for that Richard. I’ve also baked bread in that way. You’re absolutely correct, it certainly does give a nice flavour. I’m a stickler when it comes to recipe values and when I first attempted this method (Your method), I needed to know the water value of butter milk. I weight everything and it turns out that butter milk is approximately 90% water. I had to adjust my values for this.
cheers
Thank you @relambert47. I’ve got some ideas for which i’d like to use this method. For example let’s say I wish to try going low carb but still have sourdough there are many low carb recipes which use vinegar for the sourdough flavour. I’d like to try my hand at making a low (or zero) carb recipe and still get that authentic sourdough taste. But first… buy buttermilk!
When I first started making sourdough, a few years ago, I did manage to make it very sour. But soon enough I learned to balance the flavour and get tasty bread with some tang. If I want a “sweeter” bread I can can aim for a yeasty starter and if i want more sour I can do that too. But my first few breads were over the top sour and I was glad to find a way to mellow it down and learn how to balance flavour according to what I want rather than putting everything together and see what I get. It’s more controlled now. But sourdough does have the potential for a lot of sour. When I get to make your bread (if you have a favourite recipe please share) I can see what kind of sour you like and then try experimenting how to go about it with sourdough. Comes round full circle. You’ve started a very interesting topic!
Thanks for this Abe! It pays to spread the word about new ferments. I’m also interested in producing sour dough again using this supernatant. You got me thinking when you stated “keep it going”. I’m going to make some experiments with this. It will be interesting to see what comes from this. The supernatant is loaded with the fermenting qualities that flour can give and I’m sure you will be able to adjust. Be sure to get a good quality butter milk that contains live culture. I’m very fortunate to live by a dairy “Hewitt’s”. A small town production maintaining real value.
I don’t have a favourite recipe. I use the weigh scale for my different types using white bread flour. I’m consistent with a hydration value of 68% for basic bread. However, I increase that to 75% when making Ciabatta. I use a stand mixer for everything and with 75% it comes in handy. My ferment in the jar is almost finished (5 days) and I will post a photo today.
What about making a very high hydration sourdough starter, 150-200%. A warm ferment and peaked. Then using a high percentage of this in your sourdough.
Lot’s of sourdough maintenance seem to be 100% hydration or less with Hamelman’s 125% hydration being in the upper most range and rarely seen outside his recipes. His breads have a pleasant but noticeable tang. We often see, when people first start the sourdough process, that they make it very high hydration and it separates. They often get corrected and advised to thicken it up to prevent separation, to be able to judge the ferment, but high hydration does encourage lactic acid. But how about we simply use sourdough starter how you use buttermilk? This way it’ll be way more sour and will be 100% sourdough with no yeast needed in the final dough.
Here is a photo of my 500ml ferment jar. 25% flour, 75% butter milk after 5 days. Its still active but I have the clear liquid that I want which is about 30% (136ml approx.). You will probably only need a small amount for a sour dough starter. I made the air lock configuration but it is not imperative. You can simply put the lid on and loosen it slightly to r
release the gasses.
See my comment above @relambert47. This is exactly how a lot of starters look before we’re told to thicken it up. Perhaps the secret to a really sour “San Francisco” style sourdough is to treat our starters like this. They have the lactic acid bacteria capable of doing this however we just need to coax it out. I’m thinking of trying an experiment like this with my existing starter building up the acid in a very high hydration starter.
P.s. and what’s the difference between this and just adding in buttermilk? Does this make it more acidic?
One of the “products” of fermentation is water. Separation would definitely be a product unless the hydration value is too high. The ferment that I have is 75% liquid (buttermilk) which is almost 300% hydration but does not separate. If it was plain water at that value, you would get an instantaneous separation. I’m glad you brought that up because it adds to the mystery. It probably answers your question as to “P.S. what is the difference”
It is the bacteria that promotes the flavours & taste as well as the yeast but I believe the bacteria play a major role. Very interesting indeed. I’m going to get back into a starter for sour dough with this.
cheers
I understand that one can encourage more lactic acid or more acetic acid from one’s sourdough by manipulating temperature and other conditions. I wonder if a different proportions of those acids is a major part of what gives a different flavor in this fermentation technique. The buttermilk makes me want to jump to the conclusion that its mostly lactic acid, but I realize that this stuff is too complicated for me to be making that leap.
One also has to consider the TTA. Which is basically not the pH level of the acid but how much of it. For instance if the acid is not as acidic but there’s more of it then it’ll have more taste on the final loaf.
I’ve given away all my titration equipment to a friend who is making vinegar. I just basically accept the acid value that comes out of this. My guess; the end result of this process would probably be approximately 1% - 2% acid (Lactic Acid) with 2% being the high end. That is enough to raise the pH. However, it is the multitude of flavours that come with it.
There would be very little “acetic acid”, if any, since that is primarily an “aerobic process” from the “acetobacter”. The process quickly turns to “anaerobic”. The wild yeasts in the flour would definitely start producing alcohol for a short period of time. The temperature is an important factor (Room temp is OK). I had a few fail when I first started this because I was adding cold butter milk to the flour. The process failed completely. After 10 days, there was no action. Perhaps if I allowed more time, it would work. When I warmed the butter milk to room temp (25C - 27C), the process took off.
Sure and both of those things roll up to a measurable pH level, which equates (I think?) with our general perception of sour. I’m more curious what other flavor differences come into play with a different balance between those two acids.
