With this dough: lower hydration, enriched with milk and fat … and a sandwich loaf, plus baked at a much lower temp for long time, you should not get oven spring and in fact, don’t want it. The 2nd rise you will judge mostly by size as described in the recipe: “just crowning over the top of the pan”. There is a photo in the recipe.
For a high moisture, artisanal recipe, where you are also baking at 450-500 … I start at 500 for 10 minutes, you DO want oven spring and I have over proofed, no spring, but crumb is typically fine. It is learning timing, experience with the dough, the baking vessel (I think a covered cast iron or clay baker works best, but some like free form) and oven temp.
Demystifying sourdough bread baking … it should be required reading He writes about learning to “listen to the dough”. It requires experience and being observant, but worth the effort.
Hello Maplesugar - Just read your posts about stomachaches. When I looked at the ingredients I know I would have had a stomachache too. Every time I eat agave it happens. Don’t understand why but I have experimented about 4 times and know for sure that it bothers me. Try it with honey and I bet it will go away. --David
Hi, I multiplied the recipe by 1.2 to reach approximately 1200 total grams and baked 1 loaf in a 13” Pullman loaf pan. I just pulled it out of the oven and it came out great!
Bulk fermentation time was 11 hours. Then after shaping I put the loaf pan straight into the refrigerator for 12 hours. After that I let it warm up to room temperature for 4 hours and it eventually doubled in size. It reached only 1.5” below the top of the Pullman pan, and as you can see from the photos it expanded greatly in the oven.
This is a very good recipe that I expect to use in regular rotation.
I’m interested in trying this sandwich loaf recipe (non-vegan version), but I don’t have spelt flour. I do have a Mockmill 100 and the following berries: hard red spring, soft white, einkorn, and rye. Plus I have Bob’s Red Mill all-purpose roller-milled. Any suggestions for which would be the best to substitute for a successful attempt?
Hmmm, so spelt is stretchy and I find it has decent gluten strength. Hard red is stronger in both gluten strength and wheatiness flavor. All purpose has weaker gluten strength than bread flour.
So I’d do 50% all purpose, 30% hard red (for gluten) and 20% einkorn (for soft nutty flavor). Soft white is good too, maybe less sweet-nutty. Rye is also delicious but will impart a different flavor profile. I’m going on the presumption that you want a similar flavor to the original recipe. (Of course use rye if you want.)
Hold back some of the liquid and add it slowly. You may end up needing a little less.
Here is my attempt. It doesn’t have a very open crumb, but the taste is wonderful. My husband and I really enjoyed it. And i will make it again to try and improve.
Per your suggestions I used instead of 264 grams of spelt: 132 g all purpose, 79.5 grams of freshly milled hard red, and 53 g of freshly milled einkorn. I was low on milk, so I used evaporated milk. I mixed everything in my Bosch mixer and it was not soft, but felt tough and heavy. It did not seem to rise quickly or loftily. I let it in the bucket for about 10 hours, then shaped it and put into fridge overnight. It was out again for about 3 hours before baking.
Ooh thanks for sharing. So glad you enjoyed the flavor! (Evaporated milk is thicker than regular milk so maybe dilute it a bit next time to get a wetter and lighter dough.)
Thank you for this excellent recipe! I have made it a few times and it turned out perfect every time. I reduced the recipe by 15% so that it would fit better in my 1lb. loaf pans. I also dip the top in sesame seeds which gives it a really nice look besides adding a nice flavor. I made the vegan recipe because I do not consume dairy products, but I added honey instead of agave. I have read several articles stating that agave is even worse for your health than regular sugar.
Sounds delicious with sesame seeds. I’m glad you enjoy the recipe. Thank you for sharing your scaling info too; someone is bound to ask someday how to get the dough to work for a 1 lb loaf pan.
Thank you for posting this. I have been baking the SD pan loaves for awhile. And have recently decided to reduce animal fat where possible. So I’m excited to try this. I haven’t had good luck working with spelt in the past. Seems like it just holds on to lots of water and my bread ends up way too wet. I keep a good bit of Bordeaux on hand. Can I sub it for the spelt? I’m thinking the water will have to change. But then, it probably will anyways cause I live at 5,000 feet elevation, semi arid. I’ve yet to have a recipe that doesn’t need tweaking for hydration issues.
Rouge de bordeaux tends to be a little thirstier than spelt, but this can vary with the source of your flour. Definitely add liquid slowly. I hope you enjoy it.
I bought the Rouge de Bordeaux as whole berries last spring from Breadtopia, stored in central heat/cooling in dry pack cans with oxy packs. Will mill fresh as needed for my recipe. Is that what you meant by the “flour”? The bread flour is unbleached store bought and is well under the use by date.
Sorry I wasn’t clear there. By “source of your flour,” I meant the farm, region, and even harvest year. So spelt from one place/time may have a different protein level and thirstiness than spelt from another place/time. And different wheat varieties definitely behave differently, with a rouge de bordeaux dough generally feeling dryer than a spelt dough with the same amounts of water in both.
Do you happen to know at what elevation this recipe was created/tested at? I am at 5,000 feet and am finding most of my recipes need modification. Knowning the elevation could help me adjust accordingly. I made my first loaf yesterday. It turned out very good. (Vegan recipe). I still struggle with determining completion of bulk but got pretty close I think. Higher elevation changes bulk time I’m finding quite drastically. I did sub 50/50 spelt Bordeaux for the whole grain component. I don’t know if the Bordeaux also decreased my bulk timing or not. Has a wonderful wheat taste without heavy density. I will keep working on my bulk timing.
I develop recipes at sea level. Here are some links to altitude and baking discussions/info:
Knowing when a dough has fermented enough during both the first rise/bulk fermentation and the second rise/final proof is the most difficult aspect of sourdough baking, no matter the altitude.
Having a straight walled container for the first rise can make things a little easier.
Beyond that it’s about observation, experience, and understanding variables like water temp, starter vigor, wheat/flour type and more.
He writes about learning to “listen to the dough”. It requires experience and being observant, but worth the effort.
