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I loved your acorn squash and Ethiopian breads and plan to try this next but with HWW and Spelt and yeast (have not started a sourdough starter yet, life…)
What is the last ingredient on you list- it’s 15 grams of something.
Do you think it matters which wheat I use for the scald?
Would all HWW or HWW and HRW be better combinations?
Thanks for the inspiring recipes! Success with your acorn squash bread lead me to try Roasted Butternut Squash Maple Millet Bread in Joshua McFadden’s Grains for Every Season- it’s a quick bread- admittedly an easy ‘cheat’ as I am trying to eat more freshly milled whole grains every day and was making soft breadsticks at the same time. But yummy all the same!
This will be my first attempt at a large Pullman Loaf and my first using a Pullman lid- you inspire personal challenges with your beautiful results!
Butternut squash maple millet sounds amazing, and quick breads are great too. My love for them got renewed with Scottish Bannocks. So much easier than English muffins and taste amazing imo.
Back to the pan de mie 
Thank you for catching the missing word! It’s salt. So you’re planning a 100% whole grain flour + yeast version, right? I’m excited to hear how it goes!
Spelt sometimes needs less liquid than even white flours like bread flour, so maybe add the liquid slowly.
I think HWW vs. HWW and HRW for the rest of the flour is just a matter of flavor and crumb color preference. They’re both pretty strong.
Usually I would say you can reduce the dough size a bit because you’re using yeast, but since you won’t have any oomphy bread flour, it probably evens out. (My anecdotal observation is that a yeast leavened enriched bread can have more oven spring than the same recipe but sourdough.)
I’m so glad you’re enjoying the acorn squash and Ethiopian breads!
Edited to add: I don’t have a preference on which flour goes in the scald unless you using a mix of white and whole wheat flours, then I’d go with scalding the whole wheat flour to hydrate and soften the bran.
Well that helps decide the scald flour- use one of the hard wheats, I think they are ‘tougher’. I will use HW and Spelt to more closely mimic at least your color. And yes, use yeast- tomorrow’s project.
There is a trick with the Ankarsrum mixer to check hydration during kneading- after setting the arm with dough roller slightly away from the side of the bowl to knead you can pull the arm toward you to the middle of the bowl. If the dough pulls itself off the walls and encircles the roller the dough is well incorporated and needs no additional flour or wet ingredients.
The dough roller- mimics hand kneading vs the stretching motion of a dough hook (a dough hook is included in the US models but not the European ones). This is a Swedish machine manufactured in Ankarsrum, Sweden since 1939.
Kneading the dough. The bowl moves- the dough scraper (left) and roller are stationary.
An OK picture of the pulling away- mine usually is not stuck to the dough roller.
It’s a great machine.
The Ankserum looks like an awesome machine. Thanks for sharing the pics and info.
Good point about the hard wheats benefiting more from a scald!
I think I’ll be giving this recipe a try as I have a Pullman pan and yecora rojo wheat berries on hand.
I keep my sourdough starter as a stiff starter (75%) and I feed it with fresh-milled whole wheat. Most of the bread I make only uses a small amount of starter (30 grams or so) so I don’t typically worry about the difference between 75% and 100% starters. Given this recipe uses a lot more starter, it’s easy enough scale back the starter amount and add some extra water. But given that my starter is made with whole wheat, I’m wondering if I should also scale back the amount of yecora rojo flour and add more bread flour to keep the whole grain to bread flour ratio the same?
Thank you Melissa Johnson from Breadtopia for sharing Sourdough Pain de Mie with scalded flour recipe. I made two loaf batch for size of Pullman pans that I own. The scald flour technique is very similar to tangzhong method with Japanese milk bread. This was first time I have ever had sandwich bread texture with bread have a percentage of 45% whole wheat flour. I believe this is due to the scalded whole wheat flour. For this test run I used Hard Red Spring wheat that I fresh milled with my Nutrimill classic flour mill. I really like the texture and taste, I am thinking this will likely become regular sandwich bread recipe that I use regularly.
I see what you’re saying, but I probably wouldn’t bother with modifications. Yecora rojo is quite strong and the bran in the starter will be very soft from its extended autolyse of sorts. But yes, if you want to do the exact-ish recipe, you would reduce the YR in the dough ingredients and replace it with bread flour or AP flour to make up for what is in your starter. (I do think I used whole grain fed starter for at least one of my test bakes, but the final was AP.)
Your panes de miga look amazing! (I have no idea how to make pain de mie plural in French, so there it is in Spanish lol)
I’m glad you’re enjoying the bread. Here’s the sandwiches I made yesterday with some of my test-bake freezer stash.
Cheddar, za’atar, tomato and some sprays of olive oil:
I’d think “pains de mie” is plural.
You say “Many recipes suggest 1100-1200 grams of dough to fill a 13x4x4 inch Pullman pan” but your weight is quite a bit higher because of the type of flour you’re using. All I have access to is organic bread flour, AP flour and whole weight flour. I’d love to make this bread but don’t want a blow out. Should I use the 1100-1200 gram suggestion (times .7) for my smaller pullman pan? Thanks so much.
I think you can follow the recipe as is if you use your bread flour and whole wheat flour in the same quantities as the recipe calls for bread flour and yecora rojo flour.
I would say scald the weaker flour. It is the starches that gel when a flour is scalded. This brings a nice texture to the loaf. However it damages the protein and will weaken the gluten. So why not scald the already weaker flour?
I made two more loads of this bread, one loaf I am taking to work to share with co-workers and other loaf is for my eldest son to take to works for sandwiches. I finish eating last loaf from first batch I did, I see on one loaf I should have degass one bubble on top of one loaf.
Thank you! Will be making it this week!
Looks great!
I got bubbles at times too, but especially in earlier iterations when I had less dough in the pan.
Here’s a pic of a test bake with a bubble covered top
My co-workers really like the bread. Feed back was bread was soft and yummy.
For oil portion of recipe I used camelina oil as I like the flavour of this type of oil.
What happened to my loaf?
I used Spelt and HWW. In line with @Fermentada ‘s counsel and according to the Sourdough to Yeast Conversion I made the scald with 50g HWW.
I used (internally thinking “Oh no, maybe this is what happened “)…
I meant to use
385g HWW (adding in 1/2 the sourdough weight in flour) and
445g warm milk and (adding in 1/2 the sourdough weight in liquid)
350g Spelt and
4-5g of yeast.
After the initial mixing the dough was anything but sticky. I came out easily by hand and was already in a ball.
Nonetheless I allowed it to rest for 30 minutes. After that time it was even more stiff so I decided I needed to go off-script to try to save this loaf. There was no way I could get a windowpane- the dough would tear with even the slightest attempt at a slap & fold.
I decided I must add milk. So I kneaded in milk until the dough became sticky. I used a few techniques to do this- including coil folding and tri-folding. As the dough loosened I was able to do some bench shaping (1/4 turn and pull towards me with a dough scraper, repeat). The dough was still not forming into a good boule with this technique- neither was it sticking to bare granite- it was sliding over the stone rather than catching and stretching.
Overall I added an unmeasured amount of milk (but at least 1/2 cup- tipping several tablespoons into the dough at intervals. The dough was beginning to get sticky so I stopped and covered it to develop for 3-4 hours.The shape was not a nice sphere as had been obtained in other recipes with this technique.
The dough did indeed double, but deflated almost immediately as I started to loosen it from the edges of the bowl. I failed to re-read the directions and more “laminated” the dough into a rectangle than ‘patted it out’. I rolled it up- it was too long but I scrunched the ends and placed in an ungreased USA Pan large Pullman.
In 2-3 hours it rose to the lip and I believe the lid may have touched a bit of dough in one spot as the lid rolled over. The loaf was baked according to the recipe. It was 201 at the end but had fallen away from the lid during the bake.
This being numero uno attempt at Pullman+Lid I do not know if this is normal or a result of my loaf looking wonky due to the final shaping (pushing ends together). I do believe this manhandling lead to uneven top.
I will say it was beautiful (in a mother’s eye sort-of-way) and delicious. The two flours made for a rich nutty flavor with a soft interior and minimal crust.
The ends showed the Fibonacci sequence resulting from rolling.
I do want to make this again but would like to figure out what went wrong with the initial dough. I may have added 85g into both wheat berries- this would certainly account for it. I have been sick for 2+ weeks so may have goofed this. The recipe list says warmed milk- so I did warm the non-scald milk to 110. But the recipe says add the milk in cold…
@Fermentada said the dough might be too wet due to the flour choice (no bread flour, Spelt instead). So I intended to hold some milk back but mistakenly poured it all in.
How ingredients were added to the mixer:
Oil and honey
Warm scald
Warm milk- all by mistake
Yeast- mistake, meant to add salt here
Flours
Salt (would have added yeast 1/2 way through adding flours)
This is a simple, tasty loaf. I should not have made so many errors. I baked Melissa’s beginner loaf about 7 weeks ago and that was my first attempt at bread making. So I’m learning and would appreciate any feedback on the issues with this loaf.
I concur with @Loafs_by_Baker_Bob - this could become a weekly staple in my house in addition to more complicated experiments due to its ease and deliciousness! I find scalded/milk & honey breads last a bit longer in my honey-beeswax bread bag. Umami might have originally been coined for these scaled milk breads! 
Additional question- I laminated out my dough too big (was trying to get 4- 90 degree angles). So it rolled up fine but was too long, to thin- wonky comes to mind. I just tucked the seam and ‘accordion-ed’ the ends together so it would fit for final rise. Should I have turned it 90 degrees, pulled it out a bit and rolled it up again (a-la sandwich bread shaping)?
I thought about doing this but my dough had ‘been through so much’ that I thought it was time to quit improvising and leave well-enough alone.
Thank you to everyone who has any ideas about my mishaps here. Life is about learning and improving on your mistakes!
Ps- I’m still blaming the long illness on many of the sillier of the oversights (poring all the milk, the timing of adding yeast instead of salt) but if the flour weights were wrong… that would be pure doofus-ness…
But I was completely out of bread- so despite all the upper respiratory issues, one must bake! I might just need those 40-50 nutrients in freshly milled flour to heal whatever ails me!
Sprouting and sourdough starter are penciled in right after healing and taxes…
@Abe , well if that was a mistake, it was hardly my only one. I am new to bread making so I cannot address your query on the merits. But I can say that if your premise is valid, so must your conclusions be.
I posted my disaster experience here- along with my less than scientific interventions.
I would appreciate your input as you clearly posses a deep knowledge of the traits and principles of the ingredients and overall process.
Thank you for weighing in- i appreciate your pearl of wisdom on the purpose and effects of scalding.
Related Question: why does scalding seem to extend the counter-life of the loaf?
I’ve noted this on several loaves I’ve made with this method- Ethiopian bread and Acorn Squash bread on Breadtopia. They seem to stay soft longer.
That was not a mistake. Just because scalding the weaker flour might’ve been a better idea does not make doing something else a mistake. I don’t see a disaster. Looks like a nice loaf of bread to me. What was the issue and why do you consider it a disaster?
Bread with scalded flour will have a longer shelf life because it can absorb more moisture.
