If I’m using a cast iron dutch oven, should I lower the temperature of the oven? Any suggestions?
The temperatures (450 / 375 F) called for in this recipe are already on the low side for this style of bread. I’d give it a try once as listed and see how it comes out. If it’s too dark, then maybe lower the initial temp to 425 on the next bake.
I’m interested in trying this recipe but does the very long times for fermenting and proofing result in a strong sour taste? I’m curious what the resulting bread tastes like as our family actually prefers very little sour taste and the recipes I usually follow don’t result in bread that tastes sour. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks!
Just concentrating on your point about preferring non tangy sourdough alone (recipe aside for now) have you thought about the flavours imparted by different flours? You might wish to consider using durum flour in your bread baking as that doesn’t give a tangy taste at all.
The bread I make using this method does have a sour twang to it. More or less depending on how long I let the proofing periods run.
I think it would be possible to lessen or even eliminate the sour by experimenting with shortening both the bulk and final proofing times and also as @anon44372566 suggested by experimenting with different flour.
That said, when I want to make a loaf of bread for my mom, who doesn’t like sour bread at all, I use a totally different method where I create a very active “levain” of an amount that is more conventionally used in most sourdough recipes and use it before its peak in order to add no sour flavor from the starter and shorten my total proofing time to 4 - 6 hours.
Many thanks for the clear, and FAST response. I will take your suggestions. Now I have another question. On the Breadtopia page for “Slow, Lazy Sourdough Bread” the text reads: The way I typically time it is that I mix up dough for a Saturday morning loaf on Thursday evening. Then it bulk ferments over night and I start paying attention to it when I wake up on Friday morning. Sometime between mid-morning and mid-afternoon, it’s risen to about 2X the original volume and then I’ll shape it and put it in a proofing basket and then it goes directly into the fridge. Saturday morning, at whatever time works for me that particular day, I bake the cold dough straight from the fridge. Altogether it’s in the vicinity of 36 hours of slow fermentation, more than half of which is at 38f in the refrigerator.
I love this idea because of the flexibility in timing. Yet in the recipe that follows, the bulk fermentation and proofing processes are different don’t follow this model I know many variations work, but I’d like to apply that long, cold ferment and long, cold proofing to this bread. I’t’s a little awkward to do intermittent folds with an overnight ferment.
thanks!!
Without stepping on @homebreadbaker 's toes, I hope Paul chimes in here as its his recipe, after a brief read I see the folds are optional. Most of the work is done through time alone. Given enough hydration and time the gluten will form naturally. Plus, its given a good start with the mix at the beginning. While the occasional fold will certainly help its not a requirement. Instead, if you do wish to add more strength to the dough, you can do two pre-shapes followed by a 20 minutes rest before the final shaping. This will also add strength and it means you won’t have to do folds intermittently.
So I think you’re saying go ahead with the long cold bulk fermentation, don’t worrry about the folds. I gotta say, the long refrigeration (and the to me revolutionary way he uses just a tiny bit of starter) – an epiphany. I can’t wait to try it.) Oh, wait – another question: no way can I mill my own flour (my kitchen is about as big as his tiny mill) nor do I have a way to buy and store the special flour brands he lists in the recipe. I can only use the more mass-market brands (usually, if I’m lucky, KAF). But I know this process is flexible and forgiving. So I’m going to do it. And THANK YOU! It’s comforting to know these messages aren’t going out into the ether to languish unanswered.
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The bulk ferment is done at room temperature! Only the final proof is done in the fridge. After the dough is formed in the mixer its basically left at room temperature till doubled with some folds at the 6-8 hour mark. I think you’ve misunderstood the recipe. Here’s how I’d tackle it… If I’ve understood it correctly!
Before bed make the dough in the mixer. When done transfer to a bowl and cover. Leave at room temperature. Next morning form some folds (you don’t have to stand over it watching it every hour) then leave to finish bulk fermenting. When ready go onto shaping and place in the fridge for the final proof to be baked the next day. Very little hands on time. Less than you thought it’d be.
Flour doesn’t matter. Just try and aim for good quality high protein flour and match however much bread flour and wholegrain he uses.
No problem. Hope it works out well!
You are absolutely right. I did misread. 
So the bulk fermentation is the same in both the general text AND the recipe: room temperature. All good. It’s the length of time that is what I found so appealing. Wow. Thanks for your patience. Hope I didn’t cause a lot of eye-rolling.
Not at all. Glad to help. I’ve done recipes similar to this, a variation on a theme, and they are delicious. Get ready to rethink bread making. Bread is what happens while you wait! 
No toe-stepping involved. Thanks @anon44372566 for minding the store while I was working outside. I have nothing to add and you have understood the loose method I described perfectly. Mix Thursday evening and leave it overnight. A couple stretch and folds early Friday morning and then wait till the dough about doubles, then shape and into the fridge until Saturday morning.
My loaf is 100% whole grain, but I am sure that you could do exactly the same thing with some percentage of white bread flour as well. Depending on your percentage of white flour, you’d probably want to decrease the hydration some to maintain the same dough consistency.
Indeed, time is a significant ingredient in the “recipe”.
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Nice recipe Paul. I’m on a bit of a gluten free sourdough roll for the time being. But when I return to regular sourdough I’ve got this one bookmarked. Glad I did it justice 
Hey Jeff, thanks for linking your blog post - it was nice to read and I loved the conversational tone!
I was wondering if I may poke you for some info: I have a starter thats about 2.5 years now; at the beginning it was AFP, then I converted it to bread flour, then about 1 year ago, to rye (following instructions on the net). Recently - this summer - I can not for the life of me get a good rise of out my loaves. My general feeding schedule is as always, whenever I take from it, I add a 1:1 ratio of water:rye and throw it right back in the fridge. I’ll do this very randomly - sometimes not for 2 or 3 weeks.
For baking, I’ll take off a piece of it, then feed it overnight as a levain, as I’ve done many times - but the next AM there’s maybe a 20-25% rise, nothing else. Am I missing something or making a mistake? One part of me thinks, let me feed it every 4 days. But then I read posts like yours, and also thinking about the various treasure of knowledge out there, and people say (especially with rye) that they feed it only once a month. I’d love to know more about your thoughts if you have any to share!
Hmmm. One thought is that in the summer, it may rise so fast because of the higher temperature that it’s already fallen by the time you wake up? But you say you’re making a levain, so it’s only a portion of your ultimate dough.
Even if it’s fallen, though, there should be enough activity to feed the full dough amount.
Another thought…when you make the full dough amount, are you using the amount of the rise as the trigger for when you put it in the oven? That was a big wakeup call for me. I wait until it doubles (doubles-ish) in size…it’s visibly expanded, and then shape it into a loaf. There were times I just didn’t wait long enough.
Are you using a different kind of flour than you normally do? That could effect the speed of rising, too.
Others on this forum have done way more experimentation than I…so I’d be curious to here other thoughts.
Jeff
So the thing is that I always follow the hour rule - I typically don’t wait until I’ve seen it double. Could that be the issue, I wonder.
Not sure what the “one hour rule” is, but I know that in my first year or so of baking, I relied on time a lot, and discovered later that I was way under-proofing my loaves. I figured that out once when I wasn’t home (or perhaps it was just warmer), and saw how much larger/puffier the dough was from what I was accustomed to. Now, I don’t worry about the time, I just look for that look of a nice puffy dough, that’s likely “doubled in size”. I don’t really now if it’s doubled because I use a stainless steel bowl rather than a clear plastic tub that can be marked. But still, it’s noticeably risen.
I’ve also skipped the whole levain step, and just put my teaspoon to tablespoon of starter in with the water, salt, and flour at the beginning. Its fermenting a long time, so I don’t see the value of the levain. One more step that’s not needed.
My usual workflow is to build the dough in the morning or afternoon the day before I want a finished loaf, and let it ferment until dinner time, or bedtime, depending on when I start, after which I put it in the fridge overnight. During that day, I do a few stretch and folds at no particular time…generally when I wander into the kitchen. The next morning, I pull it out, one more stretch and fold sequence, and let is ferment/rise until it’s ready. In the summer, that could by by lunch time. In the winter, after dinner. My method demands some flexibility, but I generally have a decent sense of how long things take. If the dough is ready before I am, I can always throw it back in the fridge.
Blog post still in serious need of updating…hope to do so soon. Good luck!
LOL, I think @improbablepantry must be my long lost slow lazy twin. I would have written almost exactly the same thing, starting with absolutely EXACTLY the first same few words which is what I thought when I read @floursogoody’s post.
Thank you both for your insights. I didn’t mean a “one hour” I meant that I follow instructions (eg Tartine’s 3 hours or Forkish’s 5 hours). I should probably trust my gut much more and just let it ride!
I’m starting to feel like one of those grandpa’s who keeps telling you the same story over and over, but here’s a link to a post I wrote about ignoring the word “recipe” in sourdough baking.
In my experience, there are especially two things in any sourdough “recipe” that you really have to treat as a starting point for your own modification and not as a hard and fast rule:
- the proofing time
- the amount of water (hydration percentage)
The right amount of both of those things are going to vary so much depending on your temperature and the specific flour that you are baking with, that if you happen to get a good result by following specific directions, it was just luck.