I’ve been making no knead whole wheat sourdough for a few years, but two changes have made my loaves near perfect.
The first was buying Eric’s clay bakers. So far I’ve only used the boule, but it has immensely helped baking over the stone I was using before. My loaves aren’t flat anymore
The second was using a 2 day fridge fermentation. The quality and feel of the dough was incredible compared to a normal 16 hr rise. It also only took 10 hr to rise after coming out of the fridge - and that’s starting from 40 degrees.
It’s still cooling as I write this, so pictures of crumb will come later. I’m happy with the new process. And Eric’s equipment recommendations have always been helpful.!
Awesome! Do you ever use 100% whole wheat or 100% whole grain? I love to grind my own flour and I use a mixture of berries. I do an overnight soaked dough for a sandwich loaf, which turns out pretty well, but not as well as I’d like (I don’t use any commercial dough enhancers or vital wheat gluten at all). I’m still working towards the perfect 100% whole wheat sandwich loaf that is soaked for the health benefits. If I could use my starter for that, even better!
Yes I do, but not yet with this recipe. This loaf was my first one with the cold fermentation and I wanted a trial with a less dense dough. The next time I make it I’ll lkely use 100% milled wheat to see how it works.
James: What was your recipe? And at what point after feeding your starter did you use it in the mix? I tried Eric’s n-knead version and it came out too loose to manage. But even when I made a denser mix, there was no oven spring. I’ve now made 6 sourdough loaves, and not one has risen wirth a darn.
500g milled whole wheat (usually a red variety)
200g unbleached white flour
490g water - this provides about 70% hydration
1/2 - 1 cup starter, depending on its consistency
1.5 tsp salt
The health of the starter is important to obtaining a good rise. I will feed it for two or three days prior to use.
Also, I agree with you, denser dough mixtures have poorer oven spring in my experience. You can go higher with hydration than this - towards 75% - if it still seems too dry/dense.
100% milled whole wheat is possible too, but it will be a denser loaf no matter what you do. This 30% unbleached flour gives me a decent spring with a high nutrition level.
Thanks, James, for the response. My question re the starter is: when – after you feed the starter-- do you mix it into the flour? Maybe that is not an issue; maybe it will work just as well using it immediately after the feeding, or when it reaches its maximum size, but I just do not know, and perhaps that explains my lack of success. What I have been doing is waiting until the starter reaches its zenith (generally 5-6 hours after feeding); then mixing it down (which gets rid of all the air, reducing its size back to when I fed it); and then pouring it out into the water.
Am I looking for an answer to a question that is essentially irrelevant?
I don’t know if it’s irrelevant or not. Some people here know a lot more about starters than I do. My last feeding is no more than 12 hours before I use it, though 4-6 is more typical. It depends on the temperature in my house, which can be 66F in the winter or 80F in the summer.
Also, I mix my starter into the water and create a milky mix. That is then stirred into the flour/salt mixture to make the dough. I’m ensured a good even distribution of starter throughout the dough that way.
@spare_account Hi James. I’m still quite new to sourdough starter but I tend to do what it looks like you’re doing. I’ve been using Eric’s recipes. In fact that’s how I even got started baking sourdough. I was watching his videos and became incredibly intrigued. My first loaf was a NK sourdough using yeast. It came out perfect and I was instantly hooked. But I really wanted to try sourdough. After acquiring some and nurturing it a bit I attempted my first sourdough loaf, probably the beginning of April 2018. I followed Eric’s recipe, mixing the starter into the water before incorporating it into the dry ingredients. WOW!! It was a huge tasty success! I agree that by mixing the sourdough starter into the water you get awesome distribution of the starter into your entire bowl of ingredients which gives you a much better chance of a good rise and great oven spring. BTW, I use only bottled natural spring water to feed my starter and when baking bread. Chlorinated tap water will kill your starter. But you probably already know that.
I’ve been baking sourdough exclusively, about one to two loaves every 10 days or so since then. In fact, there’s a loaf in the oven baking as I type this, LOL!
OK, it seems to be universally accepted that you wait until the starter has risen before you use it to make the dough; also that you mix the starter into the water to dilute it. I follow both those rules, so that’s not my problem. But maybe my problem arises because I mix the starter down after it rises and just prior to making the dough. I did that in order to more accurately measure how much starter to use. But then I did the float test – BEFORE AND AFTER MIXING THE STARTER DOWN – and whaddya know: it floated before the mixing; and it sank after the mixing. Duhhh! Of course that is what happens when you mix all the gas bubbles out of the starter. Whether this tiny bit of enlightenment (ahem!) has anything to do with the height of my bread must await further starter development, as I dumped the excess as part of the latest feeding. (I should have used some of the bubbly starter to mix up another loaf!)
I’ve never done a “float test” but after I feed my starter and he gets all risen and bubbly I do stir him down before measuring him out for a recipe. I’ve personally had great success that way so that technique seems to work for me.
Well, I learned another thing: You should mix the starter down before measuring it, according to Eric. So that was not my problem. I just followed Eric’s exact instructions, but my bread came out as flat as ever. Even though the starter rises 2.4 times its original size. So I’m getting close to following King Arthur’s method: adding a little instant yeast with the starter. Hey, it’s cheating, but it’s still full of sourdough starter, right? But I gotta admit, it is a bit disheartening to conclude that I am unable to accomplish such a rudimentary chore!
Good point. I also learned to stir down my starter before using him too so that’s what I do. For me, I don’t add any instant yeast to my sourdough breads due to health issues concerning yeast. Being able to bake my own organic sourdough using just my sourdough starter using home-milled, heirloom grains and all organic ingredients has allowed me the supreme joy of indulging in real bread again. Adding a touch of instant yeast to your bread is a viable option that I think helps out a lot of people. It’s just not a good option for me. And don’t be disheartened about your sourdough. There can be all kinds of reasons it hasn’t worked yet the way you anticipated it would. I’m still quite new at it. But there are a lot of bakers on this forum who are real experts at it and could probably give you a few pointers. @Fermentada is a real expert here on our forum. If you reach out to her and pinpoint what some of the problems with your sourdough seem to be, she may be able to assist you. Keep baking! You’ll be glad you did.
Leah
Hey, James’ 2 days in the fridge actually worked. After close to a dozen loaves of flatbread, this one (12 oz each of whole wheat and bread flour) and a heaping cup of starter (not mixed before using), I got a decent oven spring to this one. Hope the picture comes out.
