Is it really a probiotic if...?

Whatever
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I sometimes doubt these foods and drinks which are marketed as probiotics. The reason for this assumption is i’ve tried twice now to get a starter going with kombucha drinks but it’s behaving like making a starter from scratch! I know people do make naturally risen bread using homemade kombucha, by mixing flour with kombucha and allowing it to rise, however I mixed a starter Wednesday evening and have yet to see any real activity. So i’m assuming the homemade route is the sure way of knowing your probiotic drink/food is actually live. The only time i’ve had excellent results is when buying kefir that’s made from kefir grains.

Mixing the kefir and flour produces a strong starter with no extra feeding. As supposed to this kombucha “starter” which is actually slower than plain flour and water. If it was actually live i’d have expected it to bubble up within 12-16 hours but nothing! I’ve a good mind to write to the company with my findings.

So i’m seeing it through till the starter comes alive (i’ve started so i’ll finish) but it’ll be a sourdough bread and not a kombucha bread as far as i’m concerned.

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Some makers of kombucha pasteurize their product, thus killing off yeast and bacteria, while others make a natural, organic product with the yeast and bacteria that make them a probiotic. As with our starters that have had a prolonged refrigeration and take several feedings to make them active, I wonder if refrigeration of non-pasteurized kombucha requires a similar period to make the yeast and bacteria as active as the homemade kombucha that you mentioned. I’m not surprised that the kefir is more active as there is plenty of food in the milk for the yeast and bacteria to munch on. Hopefully, someone who knows what they are talking about will give a better explanation.
We often have a liter of kefir in the refrigerator, and I’ll have to try using it to make a starter one of these days.
Richard

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Thank you Richard. I didn’t know that some makers pasteurize their kombucha which rather makes me thinks it defeats the whole purpose. Shall have to try again but next time make sure to buy non pasteurized kombucha. Either way I don’t think they should be sold as exactly the same thing.

As for non pasteurized refrigerated kombucha making it less active I would have thought by now they would have woken up. Unless it was fermented to a point where the bacteria and yeasts have become dormant or have died off. Either way if it takes me this long to “wake” it up the question is am I waking it up or in fact making a new one? I’m inclined to think if it takes as long as making a starter from scratch then it amounts to making a new starter.

I recommend the kefir starter. It really is a nice substitution and works very well in sourdough recipes.

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A few years ago kombucha brewers got into a little hot water with BATF (the gvt booze people) over the alcohol content of their beverages – 3.5%. Currently, 0.5% alc content in allowed in commercially produced kombucha. To reduce the alcohol, either yeast and bacteria killing chemistry, or alcohol eating bacteria is added, and/or low temp brewing is used. Different brewers use different methodologies.

The success of making your own kombucha from a bottled product is going to depend on the brand and methodology they use to reduce the alcohol content. I went onto craigslist.org and bought a scoby from a local gentleman for a couple bucks - less then the cost of a bottle of kombucha. Lots of folks sell their excess scoby, or give them away for free on craigslist. The scoby is a non-stop, ever-growing creature. Anyone that brews their own kombucha has to deal with the scoby creature at some time or the other, and then again later on, and then again, and again … You have been warned. :slight_smile:

By far, the best tasting kombucha I made was with the continuous brewing technique. I used a 2 gal glass jar that came with a plastic spigot. I replaced the plastic spigot with one made of stainless steel, cost about as much as the jar. Note: you want the spigot a little above the bottom of the jar because dead yeast will be piling up on the jar bottom.

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Build up the kombucha until the jar is full – 2gals of the stuff. Then, when ready, drain off only ½ gal of kombucha at a time, leaving the rest in the jar. Replace with ½ gal fresh tea and sugar, stir, then wait until the brew is ready again. Every time you do this (every 4 to 7 days), feed the kombucha, you will get a new layer on the scoby … you are also feeding the scoby creature … you have been warned, again. :slight_smile:

To clean the 2 gal jar, once every 6-months or so, I placed the scoby on a piece of clean kitchen plastic wrap on a dinner plate, drained off all of the kombucha into four clean ½ gal mason jars. After cleaning out the 2 gal jar, replace all of the kombucha. Rip the scoby in half between layers, threw away the top half, and put the bottom half back into the jar. This is your third and final warning … :slight_smile:

Eventually I quit drinking the stuff. A better fermented beverage is bourbon. If I remember correctly, to replenish the ½ gal taken from the jar, I would brew ½ gal tea, mix in 1/3 cup (80 ml) of sugar, let it cool before add to the jar.

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Thank you for that very helpful information @Otis. This explains why the last two kombucha’s I have bought did not produce a starter when simply mixed with flour and left to mature. As with most things nowadays one can’t trust exactly what it says on the bottle nor assume anything.

Quite some time ago I decided to try my hand at kombucha without having any prior knowledge how to go about this. Bought some kombucha (I forget which brand) drank most of it and kept some back. Then I made some really strong sweet tea with a lot of sugar. Poured it into a jar and added the kombucha. Stored it at the back of the cupboard for a month or two. When I checked up on it a big SCOBY had grown on top. This was only an experiment mind you and did not keep it going however it taught me a lot about the kombucha process. Now i’m assuming if I had used that kombucha I had bought it would have made a good starter. So in future I shall do research into the brand. I do think it’s a cheek to sell kombucha without it being live and not informing the customer since it is known as a probiotic drink.

P.s. Didn’t keep it up and only did it as an experiment because I seem to remember reading that if a mistake was made one could make something which shouldn’t be consumed.

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When I was making kombucha regularly for maybe a year, my husband suggested the same continuous brewing setup you describe here. In the end, like you, my interest faded, and in my case it was before I could set up anything more long-term. (lol at the bourbon reference)

My scoby has lived in a big jar in the basement for a few years and I feed it 1x per year :woozy_face: In fact, I just went down to take a photo and it looks like I’m overdue for 2021!
(There seems to be no point in killing it, or feeding it more until I’m interested in drinking kombucha again).

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I often wonder where did the first SCOBY come from? If one ferments a sugary tea without a SCOBY does one grow? Was it spontaneous and no one knows why it happened (a bit like kefir) but it’s been kept going ever since?

I managed to grow a SCOBY just by using the liquid of a previous batch as a starter. I also assume a SCOBY can do the the same thing turning it into Kombucha without adding the liquid. So why the need for both?

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That is my understanding, tho I have never tried it. Kombucha brewing has been kicking around for hundreds of years in Asia and Russia.

Much more important than “where did the first scoby come from?” is “who was the first person to eat durian fruit … and why?” Durian is a football size fruit that looks like a porcupine on steroids and smells like an open, ripe sewer fermenting on a hot August day. When the fruit is opened, you will smell it long before you ever get near it. Because of the smell of the thing, it is banned in some airports. Municipalities have banned it from public parks. If Napoleon had durian fruit, the battle of Waterloo would have ended differently. All he had to do was open up the fruit and throw it at the Brits, they would have all run away. And if the wind was blowing in the right direction he wouldn’t even have had to throw it. Just open it up and wait for the buglers to sound the retreat. And somewhere back in the history of humanity, someone smelled that thing and decided to give it a go anyway. They ate it.

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Or these poisonous foods that are only edible if prepared in a special way. I would have thought it would take just one person to be poisoned for everyone to stop trying to eat it.

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When I teach “basic” fermentation I first inform my students to stay away from attempting Kombucha at least until they are satisfied with their fermentation abilities and understanding.

Homemade Kombucha can and will vary in a great many ways. The most common complaint I get is; “My kombucha tastes like vinegar” and this is a common result from beginners not fully understanding the process. The process involves Yeast, Acetobacter (vinegar producing bacteria) and LAB (Lactic Acid Bacteria). Yeast converts the sugars into alcohol. Acetobacter converts the alcohol to vinegar. The LAB converts the available sugars to Lactic Acid. Yeast is “facultative” which means it will live in an environment with or without free dissolved O2. LAB is basically, an “anaerobe”, which means it will thrive in an environment without free dissolved O2. Acetobacter is a strict Aerobe which requires free dissolved O2. From this it can be seen that the yeast will first consume the available O2, but not all of it. The Acetobacter will consume “all” of the O2, making a very good environment for the LAB. When the O2 is depleted, the Acetobacter dies off (No more vinegar production), the yeast continue into alcohol production and the LAB continues to produce Lactic Acid. A perfect balance if all goes well.

Theoretically, all these processes take place simultaneously giving a well balanced liquid with the associated productions. The culture(s) are all competing for the available food supply, while converting their environment favourable for them in an attempt to drive off all competing cultures. The yeast will produce alcohol which will eventually drive out the other cultures. Acetobacter will produce vinegar, driving out the others and LAB will produce Lactic Acid, also capable of driving out the others. If the process is balanced, the natural process will offer a very good drink with all of the above products.

However, many homemade starters “are given by friends etc.” what is called a “mother”, which is a jelly like substance comprised mostly of cellulose (Paper produced by Acetobacter) and contains a great deal of Acetobacter. Other cultures will also be present but not in the ratio to produce a “quality” Kombucha. This will throw the balance off and will more likely, produce an unwanted high value of vinegar.

Having said this, getting a starter from a poorly made Kombucha will probably only offer a great deal of Acetobacter which will set about making more vinegar, driving away the yeasts etc. Try purchasing a bottle of Kombucha from a reputable retailer which will probably be balanced in such a way so as to offer the yeast as well as the LAB and limited Acetobacter (If any) to produce your starter.

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Thanks for the interesting write up!

The first time I tried Kombucha many years ago, buying a bottle of some commercial product, I was put off by the vinegary taste. I avoided it for years until I tried some a friend made which turned out to be delicious. She gave a scoby to my wife, who proceeded to make us delicious kombucha for a year or so without any prior experience with fermentation, just following the friend’s process.

At some point she put it aside, and her old scobys have been languishing for maybe a couple years at this point, and it looks like if I want more kombucha I’ll have to take it up myself. Would you expect these are salvagable, or would I be better off seeing if I can get a new scoby from the friend?

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I’m not sure why a SCOBY and some “starter” kombucha from the previous batch are both needed.

I once bought some very nice live kombucha, saved some at the end, brewed some very sweet strong tea and added it in as a starter. No SCOBY. Left it for quite a while and when I checked up on it a SCOBY had grown.

100% agree with you. I’ve tasted many kmobuchas that is just like drinking vinegar. This brand however was very tasty.