Looking for panettone recipe and molds (prefer reusable).
TYIA
SueVT over on thefreshloaf.com makes wonderful panettone and i’ve just sent her a message on your behalf.
Thank you
Hi,
Ideally you will need a solid starter, 40% hydration (lievito madre). Feed it twice daily until it stabilizes (ends up around pH 4.1)
Giorilli is a good recipe to start with, as it is well balanced and usually performs well. Like almost all panettone recipes, it involves two doughs, developed over a period of two days. The panettone is baked at the end of the second day, then hung upside down overnight so that it doesn’t sink. For that reason, panettone pans are paper pans that can be pierced with a skewer to hang upside down (not reusable pans)… hope this helps.
Link to Giorilli recipe is on Natasha’s baking dot com (can’t post link here)
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I’ve been making a panettone recipe from the Italian Master Baker Iginio Massari for the last 8 or 9 years. A few years back I wrote a guest blog piece here on the Breadtopia site about my insights into making that recipe. Here is a link to that piece:
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Thanks for the head’s up on SueVT’s blog about making panettone! I look forward to studying her posts for strategies and techniques to help enhance my continuing panettone adventure.
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My pleasure @djd418. She is excellent. Have never tried panettone. Doesn’t look easy at all. In fact it looks damn difficult. Looking forward to yours.
Sue did try to post her reply on here but she got a message that her reply is being moderated. Perhaps because it was her first post here. Don’t know what’s happened to it. Hope @eric or @sysadmin can shed some light on this.
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That is a marvellous bake Dan. Thank you for sharing. You’re a pro at panettone.
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I am very intrigued and impressed with all the different panettones that that she has made! And I really want to explore her techniques for optimizing her lievito madre.
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Thank you Abe. The admin finally released my original comment, sorry it took so long!
Sue
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Thank you very much Dan! I’m always happy to discuss panettone! I liked your blog post.
Sue
I’ve seen some of your posts talking about the evolution of your LM maintenance routine. Could you describe your LM management for panettone? It sounded like you alternate between maintaining your LM dry/bound (40% Hydr) and then keeping it in water. Also giving it a bath every other day. I’d love to hear more detail, if possible. I am growing more convinced that better optimizing my LM is the key to taking my panettone to the next level.
Also, I’d be interested to hear about the flour you use. I have used bread flour + gluten flour to bring the protein content to 14% -15%. This year I have been using Tipo 00 flour from Breadtopia + gluten flour to bring protein level to 16%. That is the protein level I saw on the flour Maurizio Leo uses for his panettone. And I also saw you sometimes use different flour for Impasto 1 and Impasto 2. Did I read that right? Anyway, I’ll stop pelting you with questions for now (although I have many more 
). If you think this is too detailed a discussion for this forum, you could DM me through this site.
Hi Dan,
My way of handling my LM continues to evolve, but currently, when I take LM out of longer term cold storage, I give it a 24 hour sugared feed to kickstart it at ambient tep, then move to a twice/day feed, alternating 82F 8 hours and 65F 16 hours for several days. When I am seeing consistent strong development, it’s ready for a panettone bake. (this can happen in as little as two days).
The LMz (sugared) approach is a new one, and I am still evaluating it. Look at the Instagram feed of sourbakernz, or the book Remember 28C by Jose Romero for more information. It does produce powerful growth of yeasts and some suppression of acidity, both good goals, but in my opinion makes the LM a bit unstable. That is, it might have the tendency to go too far in the suppression of lactic bacteria growth. A good LM is a balance between active yeasts and appropriate levels of LABs
And so, I use the LMz approach only about 50% of the time. The measurement of sugar in the LM is by using Cu% sugar saturation as described by Chambelland’s universal system (see Chambelland’s book, Sourdough Panettone and Viennoiserie). This is a calculation that can be set up in a spreadsheet and used for measuring the small amounts of sugar used in this approach:
I am now using Molino Pasini panettone flour, which produces a strong and silky dough. I have the idea that trying to mix gluten into flour doesn’t result in what you need for panettone… Also I do use a weaker flour for the second impasto, typically a bread flour simply because I have a lot of bread flour in my house. Some people even use weaker flour, look at Brumits and others on Instagram…
I don’t know about Maurizio’s panettone, though I do own his book, got it last year as a gift. He’s not a well known panettone source however, and I think you’d do better looking at some other sources… I do recommend the Chambelland book if you are seriously interested, as a good starting point!
Cheers, Sue
Hi Sue, Thanks for the swift reply! I have just ordered the Chambelland book and am now following sourbakernz. Lots to digest!
My typical LM prep for panettone from refrigerated 100% Hydr. starter is to refresh twice a day for several days with 1:5:2.5 (starter/bread flour/water) keeping it at 80F to get it used to having plenty of food, then about 1 week’s worth of 3 feedings a day at 1:3:1.5 at same temp. The day before mixing my first dough I switch to 4 hr feedings of 1:1:0.5 at 86F until the last feeding of the day, when I switch to 40% hydration and bind it in a stout towel overnight at cool room temp. In the morning of the first dough build, I check the pH with pH paper (my digital pH meter is due to arrive on Monday 
) and then give it a bath with a pinch of sugar. I notice that after over night binding and the morning bath, my LM is most active. Looking forward to studying the resources you provided to help super charge my LM.
Thanks again!
Dan
By the way, when researching the Molino Pasini pannetone flour you use, I noticed that this was the same flour that Maurizio was using for his panettone. Then I remembered that he had recently gone to France to take a course on making Panettone. It turns out that it was the Panettone, Viennoiserie and Sourdough Bread Advanced Course at the EIDB. The course was taught by Chambelland! Small world, isn’t it!
Indeed so! That is really interesting! If you’re familiar with Roy, he also uses Pasini. I have used the Petra 6384 panettone flour and also the Dallagiovanna… they are both excellent flours if you can get them.
Chambelland has some very nice youtube videos, worth a look…
–Sue
That’s interesting that you are using such a high flour ratio, do you find it makes your LM more active? I have had the experience of a burst of activity when increasing the flour amount sometimes. Most of my feedings are at 1:1.5:.40, except when doing a panettone bake. Then the water increases and the flour decreases, to increase speed.
I had neglected my starter for multiple weeks, so I was trying to jump start it by making sure that it had plenty of food. That said, when feeding his starter twice a day at room temp Maurizio Leo routinely feeds with flour 5 times the starter amount.
The other thing I try to manage by changing the starter to flour ratio is to get it to peak in the desired time interval so that I can refresh it at its peak. My starter will usually peak in 5 or 6 hours with a 1:1 starter to flour ratio (when not in panettone mode, in 4 hrs when in panettone mode), in 7 or 8 hrs with a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio and in 10 - 12 hours for a 1:5 ratio. So when I am feeding 3 times a day (every 8 hours) I use a 1:3 ratio. But just today I read that you should keep your starter to flour ratio constant and use temp to adjust triple rising time. I need to do more research on this topic.
Next, I wanted to make sure I understand your refreshment ratios properly. I believe you are keeping your starter at 40% hydration level with a 1:1.5 starter to flour ratio. Correct? So I think that would be 1:1.5:0.60, where 0.60/1.50 = 40%. Also, for yo ur 16 hour proof at 65F, I am guessing that your starter is bound in a stout towel. Correct?
Lastly, I just got my pH meter and have noticed that my starter is running at pH 3.73 at peak and about 4.5 just after refreshment. I’ll try a bath with some sugar tomorrow to see if that helps. Any suggestions?
One question - how do you know that the starter has peaked? Not sure about this concept… but, it sounds like you are doing well. Sometimes we are looking for pH 4.10 at X hours depending on temperature… Your starter sounds like it is very active, which is good! Many people are ok with a pH in the high 3’s if it has gone overnight.
My ratio of 1:1.5:.40 means 1 part starter, 1.5 parts flour, and 40% of the Flour weight in water.
The bagnetto will probably help you raise your baseline a little. You could do this daily for a little while, or you could maintain it in water for a while.