I could use some advice on baking no knead sourdough at 7,000 ft
Since no one has answered, I’ll put out some untested thoughts. I live at 3300 feet. My folks live at 9800 feet (South Fork, CO). I don’t adjust anything for bread making either place but things certainly happen faster at 9800 feet, but it is typically cooler also. Things will rise faster and sometimes too fast to have the structure so pay attention to developing the gluten and not overproofing.
And really, you probably just need to test small batches in your own conditions: flour/water/temp/oven.
Thank you very much. I did notice a much faster rise and proofing. Any other replies from the forum would be helpful
Macrojane, have you learned anything in the past year and a half that you could pass on? I am currently visiting at 7800 feet and having some issues with crust over cooking on my sourdough loaves. I have NOT checked the accuracy of the oven here so don’t know if it runs hot or cool (I will do that shortly) but was wondering if you have any pointers on initial temps. I am using an oblong stoneware covered baker that I start in a cold oven then turn my dough into it and bake 30 mins at 500F, then remove the lid and bake at 450F for a few minutes. At this altitude I don’t think the internal temp will reach 210F. I measure it at about 198 and all seems well baked internally when I take the bread out, but the crust is definitely overdone. Any advice on anything you have discovered would be most welcome.
Greetings fellow bakers. I live at about 6700 and am always looking for tips on baking in higher elevation. The link below has some really useful tips and breaks it down by bread/cakes/cookies…cheers and happy baking!
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/learn/resources/high-altitude-baking
Adding to the info here:
At high altitudes, reduce the target internal temperatures of breads by about 5°F (see details in quote below) Because water has a lower boiling point at high altitudes, breads will be cooked through at slightly lower internal temperatures. If you bake until the customary “over 205F for artisan style breads and over 190F for sandwich loaves,” your breads could be overdone and too dry.
At sea level, water boils at 212°F. For every 500 ft increase in elevation, water’s boiling point is lowered by approximately 0.9 °F. At 8,000 ft in elevation, water boils at just 198 °F.
I’ve been baking bread at my home in the mountains in the desert southwest at 7,300 feet above sea level for the past 25 years. I bake at least twice a week, more if I have time. My bread is legal tender up here and I have paid for everything from well repair to tree removal.
Here is The Tip that will help you most:
REDUCE YOUR YEAST BY 66% at 7,000 ft above sea level.
If you still want to read more tips for high altitude yeasted bread baking with some general bread baking tips tossed in, then buckle up Buttercup!
Don’t start with sourdough starter, that’s like trying to learn calculus before you can count.
If you’d like to use some whole wheat I applaud you. However, I would first master White Bread then work your way up to no more than 1 cup or whole wheat per 1 1/2 pound loaf of bread.
In order to get the most nutrients and the best flavor, grind your own wheat berries.
If you can not afford some $500 wheat mill (and who can?) then do what I have done for 10 years
and use a coffee grinder ~ a burr grinder works best. I have been using a $40 Cuisinart coffee grinder every week for over 10 years now. Works great at a fraction of what a flour mill costs.
I love varieties of Hard White Winter Wheat (Sonoran is fantastic, but hard to find) as it is high in gluten and naturally blond in color and sweet tasting (not as many tannins as the Hard Red Wheat varieties that come off a bitter to my palate, but you do you so long as you pick a variety of wheat with plenty of gluten, say, between 11% and 14%.)
Be cheap like me. Just buy Organic All Purpose Flour (I get mine at Costco) and go online and find a sack of Organic Vital Wheat Gluten (a 2 pound sack is $14 and lasts me 6 months and I bake weekly) Use your all purpose for your chemically levend breads such as pie, cookies, quick breads, etc and then when you need “Bread Flour” simply whisk in 1/2 teaspoon Gluten for every 1 cup of Organic All Purpose Flour. I don’t never buy Bread Flour (that’s Strong Flour for our friends across The Pond).
Bread Flour is expensive and the only difference is the % of protean (gluten) in the flour.
Use about 66% less yeast than what is called for. With less atmospheric pressure you need far less leavening as there is less air between you and Outer Space if you are so blessed as to live at 7,000 ft. It may seem like air weighs nothing and has no mass, but Archimedes proved that fact over 2,300 years ago.
I use a scant 1 1/2 teaspoons of yeast for a batch of three 1 1/2 pound loaves:
that is only 1/2 teaspoon per 1 1/2 pound loaf!
This may seem like very little, but I assure you that it is plenty of yeast to make big fluffy loaves with a moist even crumb (I know we don’t want even crumb in sourdough, but this is not sourdough!) If you use the amount of yeast that they call for at sea-level (and unless stated otherwise, every cookbook is formulated for sea-level) you will end up with a BRICK.
Enriched breads, breads with extra fatty ingredients such as eggs, milk, butter, oil etc., do well at high altitude. This is because we need all the help with moisture that we can get way up here! Where I live at 7,300 ft water boils at 198 instead of 212 (try it yourself, it’s weird but true). That means water boils away faster than at sea level leaving you with dry bread (additionally, if you use gobs of yeast it will gobble up all the sugars and then collapse making for a very crumbly loaf!) I do not shy away from recipes that call for using fatty ingredients (lard, oil, butter, egg, milk). I also use a bit extra of any liquid called for (water, milk, beer).
Take Notes. There will be variations in ingredients, weather, ovens etc.
Use a tiny bit more yeast for multi grain breads than you use for white breads ~ this is because you will need a bit more yeast to lift that whole wheat than the amount required to life a 100% white flour bread (for example, for 3 (1 1/2 pound) loaves of Multi Grain Cornell Bread I use 1 3/4 teaspoons yeast, for 3 (1 1/2 pound) loaves of White Farm Bread or Milk Bread or Challah, I use only 1 1/2 teaspoons yeast).
Use Organic Ingredients and *know where the wheat comes from (bonus “rant” below if you want more info on why you need to know where your wheat comes from)
Never measure your flour. You will find that flour is far more dry at our altitude because of our dry air so you will want to learn how the dough feels at each stage so you know if it needs more flour. The amount varies with each batch so do not measure, feel Grasshopper!
Keep your bread moist ~ don’t add too much flour at once. You are looking to add just enough but not too much flour. I like to think of it as a “Post-It-Note” level of sticky. A “Duct Tape” level of sticky is fine, but a little harder to work with until you get practice. When mixing dough with a mixer, you can hear this (correct amount of flour) happen as the dough will make a sucking sound as it pulls away from the sides of the work bowl of the mixer. If mixing by hand it is the point you can knead without the whole mess clinging to your hands like a needy toddler. At that point, add only a teaspoon or so of flour at a time until the dough no longer sticks to the bottom of the bowl as it mixes.
Once you accomplish the desired texture and you don’t think the dough needs more flour, then it is time to knead. This kneading stage of mixing will take at least 10 minutes in a mixer with a dough hook and up to 45 if kneading by hand. If your dough persists in feeling stiff and resilient you may, if kneading by hand, let it rest on the counter top covered with a tea towel or slam it on the counter as hard as you can 3 - 4 times. You will notice a change in texture! The dough will relax and become soft and easier to knead.
If kneading with the dough hook in the work bowl of a mixer, simply shut the mixer off and give it a 5 minute rest then knead another 5 minutes and perform the Window Pane Test (I like to call it the Bat Wing Test! 
Once it relaxes and passes the Window Pane Test (look online for videos of this test and preform this test with every batch of bread) then you are ready for the first rise. Set a timer ~ it is very easy to over proof your dough at high altitude. In a cold kitchen this takes about an hour, if it is warm it can take as little as 35 minutes. A long slow cool rise lends more flavor and is preferable.
Be sure to shape the bread very tightly ~ watch other bakers on YouTube. Shaping is very underrated but it has so much to do with the appearance and the flavor of your finished product.
At high altitude you must keep an eye on the bread for both the first and the second rise ~ it will have an easier time rising at our altitude and, especially in a warm kitchen, will rise quickly.
It is also important to let the dough rise long enough especially at the second rise just before the bread is baked. I see my students consistantly making the error of not letting the dough rise enough at the last stage. You should see the dough making a bit of a muffin top over the edge of the pan, at least an inch or so above the pan before you pop it in a well-preheated oven.
SET A TIMER!
Bake 1 1/2 pound loaves in oiled metal pans (I just use old cheap pans made before DuPont poisoned absolutely everyone with their nonsitck nonsense. Never wash the pans, just wipe them out and they release very well. Unglazed earthenwear pans and glass pans all work great but are heavy even before you fill them with dough. I bake loaves at 380 for 26 minutes or until my instant read thermometer reads 180 for enriched breads (such as Challah or Vienna) or 190 for lean breads (such as French Bread). 1 pound loaves will take 20 to 22 minutes, 9 ounce loaves in mini loaf pans take about 15 minutes, a muffin tin of 3 ounce rolls will take about 11 minutes, a big “half sheet pan” crammed with a dozen 3 ounce rolls will take 15 minutes. More loaves in the oven at a time means a few extra minutes of cooking time should be added.
For hard crust, allow to cool at least 45 minutes on the wire rack. I do this only with my 1 pound free form boule of lean dough. Most the time I am making bread for little ones or elders or teens with braces and they can not tolerate the hard crust (trendy and beautiful though such loaves may be, they are rather impractical!)
For soft sliceable crust for sandwiches: Remove baked loaves from pan (if stuck, just let rest in pan 10 minutes and it will steam out and release), place on wire rack and cover with clean tea towel then place entire bundle into a large new clean trash bag and tuck the loaves in and allow to cool to room temperature (about 2 hours) then place loaves in individual plastic bags and store in a cool dark place.
At high altitude, way less yeast, less sugar, less salt and more liquid and fat are best. Your oven should be a bit hotter than called for (by about 25 degrees) and you will need to just cook the bread until its internal temperature reaches 180. Many recipes say to bake the bread for an hour and if you do your loaves will be Burnt Offerings. 24 to 30 minutes will be plenty of time ~ the sweeter doughs brown quick because of the sugar so keep an especially close eye on them and if you see the crust is getting brown before the estimated cooking time is up, tent the loaves with a sheet of thick foil to protect them. If you like a very deep golden brown crust, use (mix into the dough) about 1/2 teaspoon of diastatic malt powder for each loaf.
Once you get this crazy high altitude baking thing down, teach someone; best gift you can give!
Enjoy!
Panacea
- Why Organic? Call the company who makes the flour youd like to use or the wheat berries you want to mill and bake with. Ask questions. If they don’t know the answers, don’t bother with their company and try another company. If you can find a farmer to sell you wheat berries with no pesticides do so. I use Great River Organic Milling products. If you can, use all organic ingredients especially when it comes to eggs, milk and flour. I spoke many times at length with a wheat farmer with a degree in cereal science who does not use any sprays. He explained that a thimble of Round Up will kill a man and it is why so many folks think they are “Gluten Intolerant” and those same folks can eat bread and pasta in Italy or France with no gastronomic repercussions because the powerful pesticides we use in the USA are prohibited in Europe. Even Organic flour is legal to spray with Round Up fungicide, he explained, because it is only the Pesticide that is prohibited. Other farmers like to spray Fungicide to “Desiccate” (dry out) the wheat so it may conveniently all be harvested at once instead of repining in waves as it does naturally. He explained that it is cheaper to hire one big machine to do all the work in a day or two once the wheat has been killed off rather than letting it ripen naturally and having to harvest over a longer period of time. You need not take my word for it, do your own homework.