I need some help with using Breadtopia’s Select Bread Flour. I bought a bag after using up my last KA flour stock.
The first recipe I tried it is is a 40% Home milled Red Fife, 20% home milled White Senora, and 40% bread flour(formerly KA, now Select) at 80% hydration. I also added a tsp of DMT.
The first bake, I very little rise.
The second bake, after reading that the stone ground bread flour would be thirstier, I upped the hydration to 85%, was a total failure, didn’t raise, and I ended up throwing away before baking as I complete stuck to my proofing basket liner even though plenty of rice flour was used. I assumed that I over proofed.
The third attempt, I went back to 80%.
Third attempt was looking better at first. The dough handled much better, but again didn’t really rise, but I baked it anyway just to see what happened. I got a little spring, but was super dense, wet bread that was in-edible.
Any help would be appreciated. I was thinking of dividing the bread flour(select) portion to half select and half Wheat Montana AP flour to “tone” in down a little.
Can you describe how much you let the dough rise? My off-the-cuff guess is that the dough overfermented. The additional stone ground flour may have sped things up.
Pre-Beadtopia select flour timeline
7am Make Levain, grind flour (with Kitchenaid mill)
10:30 Autolyse
11:15 add levain and salt
Every 30 min, coil fold, total of about 6 times
Bulk in oven with bulb on
Roughly 7pm, shape and put on fridge for cold proof
7am bake
Never had great loft, but was getting better.
Recently purchased Nutrimill Harvest stone mill and bought Breadtopia Select.
Attempt 1(85% hyd):
7am Make Levain, mill flour (with Nutrimill)
10:30 Autolyse
11:15 add levain and salt
Every 30 min, coil fold, total of about 6 times
Bulk at about 78 deg F
Roughly 5pm, shape and put on fridge for cold proof
Didn’t bake as I couldn’t even get it to release from the banneton without destroying the dough as is was so sticky.
Attempt 2(80% hyd):
7am Make Levain, mill flour (with Nutrimill)
10:30 Autolyse
11:15 add levain and salt
Every 30 min, coil fold, total of about 6 times (dough felt better and I had some hope)
Bulk at about 78 deg F
Roughly 4pm, shape and room temp proof
Bake at 7pm(dough was still very sticky but decided to bake anyway just to see what would happen)
Final bread was very wet and heavy even though baked to 206 deg F internal. No oven spring.
Bake 3 (after my initial post, different bread) 4 seed Country Loaf from Benny Benito’s post but using WM AP and Breadtopia Select.
7am Make Levain, grind flour (with Nutrimill)
9:00 Saltolyse
11:15 add levain
Every 30 min, coil fold, total of about 6 times
Bulk at about 78 deg F (had better bulk)
Roughly 4pm, shape and room temp proof
7pm cold proof
7am bake
Dough felt better though out the process. Poke test looked good in the morning before bake. Resulting bread had poor oven spring, though better then previous attempts. Texture was ok but fairly tight yet soft, relatively even crumb. Crust was actually quite good, even had some nice blisters. Taste was quite good.
As a note, my starter is typically fed at 1:10:10 with 25g rye and 25g AP.
It sounds like your last loaf worked out pretty well. There’s going to be a difference in crumb and oven spring, going from white bread flour to Breadtopia’s select bread flour, which is stone ground, high extraction flour (more bran and germ than white bread flour). But I agree with you that it shouldn’t be a shift from successful bakes to sticky flat frustration.
My advice for your next bake would be to stick with that 80% (or lower) hydration you did in the second, more successful bake.
I’d reduce the dough handling a bit, down from six to four or fewer rounds of folding. I think less active gluten development may actually improve the dough structure. I see your dough formula as similar to pairing 80% whole grain flour with 20% refined strong flour; moreover, your whole grain flours – red fife and white sonora – are not gluten powerhouses. So a lot of handling could be counterproductive. I could be wrong – I’m basing this off experience with whole grain baking, and an experiment I did in 2018 with the Select flour in a fairly dry dough, no knead vs. more handling.
Finally, last tip…maybe a shorter final proof (depending on your house temp, three hours might be too much). Also, pop the banneton into the freezer for 20 minutes just before baking. This will stiffen the dough, help it detach from the basket liner, and help the loaf retain more height.
As for your original question, I am not sure if subbing in some Montana AP would make much of a difference in gluten strength as I am guessing its protein level is lower than the Select’s. Might be one-half dozen-the-other.
So, an update…
Last week, I made another loaf, same ingredients (40% red fife, 20% white senora, 40% select)@75% hydration this time. I did a shorter proof, baked same day. No oven spring at all, just spread wider. Based on pictures, was under proofed. More (large) holes near the upper crust…
This weekend…
Made two adjustments. First, reduced the amount of select to 20% and replaced the other 20% with standard bread flour. Went back to the longer bulk and cold proof in the fridge over night. Second, and probably of lesser impact, changed up my baking method a little. Instead of an inverted DO over the bread which was placed on a pizza stone, I did the roasting pan with towels and water to create steam with the bread still on the pizza stone. (I am really liking this method…). Results were much improved! Still not amazing, technically speaking, but way better. I love the taste of this bread. I happened to buy a white sour dough loaf from a little bakery yesterday which doesn’t even compare! The white sourdough had zero taste
That looks great! I’m sure the flavor is so good too.
I think getting the fermentation/proofing timing right is so crucial. Though by “right” I mean a window of workable, not an unforgiveably exact amount of dough expansion.
Enjoy repeating this wonderful bake or playing with the formula and hydration in increments!