I’m a little confused with what to do with discard starter and the second active starter jar in day 5. Which do use to bake with?
I I appreciate advice!
AdelaVan
One only needs to discard when making a starter from scratch because it needs daily feeds for a week or two before it’s strong enough to make bread. If one doesn’t discard then before long you’ll have a swimming pool of starter.
When your starter is ready you’ll either feed the starter and use some in your dough when it’s nice and bubbly. Or you’ll take some of your starter to build an off shoot starter called a levain.
With careful management you won’t have to keep too much starter and minimise, or do away with altogether, any need for discard.
If you are on day 5, have some way to go and it’s past any smelly stage then you can use the discard in other recipes such as waffles, pancakes etc so you don’t have to waste it.
Thank you Abe, That was very clear. I needed the extra details.
AdelaVan
@Abe Abe, I have definitely come to the conclusion that I need to keep significantly less of my beloved Cyril around. I simply have much more Cyril around than I need. I do hate the idea of totally discarding some of Cyril into the bin so I will once again be baking at least 2 batches of scones. But I’m going to take only 70-100g of Cyril and then feed him 1:1:1 by weight. In that way I’ll more than likely have enough Cyril around to bake a couple loaves with enough to refresh by feeding. And if I only have enough for one loaf and then need to feed for another loaf, so be it! I’m sure Cyril will soon again become large enough for perhaps a batch of scones and a loaf. Keeping so much of him viable has I have been is just not working for me and using up too much flour. Then if I’m not baking, I feel like I’ve just wasted all that flour! Believe it or not, that’s exactly what happened over the last couple weeks when you so graciously helped me revamp him into a healthier Cyril. I had all this wonderfully robust Cyril and I didn’t bake a thing! Perhaps that’s what helped lead me to this sourdough epiphany. I’m definitely a work in progress!
Blessings,
Leah
Good idea @Leah1. I’m a firm believer of not keeping too much starter and using a starter as seed to build a levain. I’d be tempted to never keep more than 100g at any one time. Simply take off however much is needed to build a levain. Then when Cyril has run down to mere scraps top up to 100g again, allow to double then back in the fridge. So easy to keep a starter this way with very little flour and no discard. Plus, each time the starter is fed it gets a healthy feed.
@Abe I know most bakers don’t keep a lot of starter around. I have kept a lot of him since I first nurtured Cyril. I definitely want to reduce his amount to a more manageable level though I suspect the amount I keep will still be thought of as “a lot of starter” by a lot of bakers. But if I can keep enough of Cyril for 2 loaves and then enough to refresh him, that will be a good start for me.
I have never used Cyril as seed to build a levain for bread; honestly, I never have. I’ve always just used recipes that call for Cyril straight from his jar. Most loaves I’ve baked need approximately 70-100g of starter each so aiming to keep at least 200-225g of viable Cyril is my goal for now. I’ve never tried a recipe that called for building a levain. That’s a technique I’ve never attempted. At some point, I may. I have about 5 “core” recipes I’ve been routinely baking. I also keep my selection of whole grains to just Turkey Red, Hard White and Rye. This isn’t by choice. My husband isn’t supposed to eat a lot of whole grain so most of my breads are about 25% whole grain only. My exception is my rye bread which is 50% rye. I even make a special cinnamon bread just for my husband which is 100% white bread flour (I think that’s your strong flour). I personally adore whole grains and would prefer to bake a loaf that’s 100% whole grain but with his health restrictions I just can’t justify baking loaves just for me so I’ve made compromises by choosing the bread recipes I have. That also means I don’t keep a larger selection of whole grains even if I’d love to try something new.
I’m definitely a work a progress – a slow work in progress. Even my baby steps are tiny!
It’s been a long day. I need a soothing hot cuppa tea…
Blessings,
Leah
Hi Leah,
Our solution to your dilemma is to keep 2 containers in the fridge, one with starter, the other with discard. The discard container usually has more in it as we use it less than starter, usually for an overnight waffle recipe of for biscuits.
Happy baking,
Keith
@KeithG2965 Funny you should mention that, Keith! I woke this morning with same thought – that I could keep 2 containers in my fridge! Why hadn’t I thought of that before? I have a smaller jar I can use for refreshing Cyril and I can keep what’s left in the container it’s in to use as needed. Using the smaller container for keeping viable Cyril would also be a help in managing his size. It’s been 11 days since Cyril ate. I was thinking of measuring him out today or tomorrow and feeding him 1:1:1 in the smaller jar and just leaving what was left of him in the larger jar he’s already in. Great minds think alike!
Blessings,
Leah
@Abe @KeithG2965 Abe & Keith, here is my smaller jar with just 100g of Cyril, fed 1:1:1. Of course, he now needs at least 5+ hours to double. It is a bit nerve-wracking to see such a small amount of him when I’m used to seeing so much more but this is necessary; at least that’s what I keep telling myself 
.
Yes, Keith I have the original jar of Cyril, now discard Cyril, in the refrigerator to use for scones, etc.
The journey continues…
Baking blessings,
Leah
Here’s my starter. Last fed a few weeks ago. Dip into it taking off a few grams to build a levain. So each levain build is a healthy feed and active when it goes into the dough. In the next bake or two my starter will be down to a few grams so I’ll feed it maximum 50g each of water and flour, allow it to double then back into the fridge it goes. This way my starter feed is also healthy, about 1:5:5. Each stage has a good feed be it levain build or starter maintenance but never building too much and no discard.
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Leah my starter maintenance is similar to what @Abe does. I keep a minimal amount of John Dough because my levain builds are 1:6:6 to 1:8:8 overnight. I have little to no starter discard despite doing weekly feedings. I typically bake once or twice per week. I aim to have about 4-5 g of John Dough left after my baking and then will feed him 1:2:2 or 1:3:3 typically so will have about 25-30 g of starter after a feed. I used to keep much more and had a discard container in the fridge, but decided to get rid of that and change what I do so that it takes up less space in my relatively small fridge.
Starter portrait sharing? I’m in 
Left is my regular starter, big ratio feed over the weekend, refrigerated when a little past the rubberband.
Right is my GF starter, 1:1:1 feed a long time ago. Feb maybe.
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My experience with Cyril yesterday was definitely different. Instead of needing to stay on my kitchen counter for 5-6+ hours to double, he doubled in 3-1/2 hours! 3-1/2 hours! I had set an alarm to check him around 5 hours but if I hadn’t been going into the kitchen when I did I wouldn’t have noticed that he had already doubled. I did put him right into the refrigerator.
I prepped one of my husband’s cinnamon loaves last night so I could bake it this morning. It’s in the oven now but I can honestly say the dough wasn’t behaving quite the way I expected it to and I’ve been baking these special loaves for my husband since mid-2018. I’ll know in about 10 minutes when I take the lid off the clay baker if I’ll have a loaf of my husband’s cinnamon bread or a pancake. Film at 11…
Coffee. Need coffee!
Leah
Houston, we have liftoff!
Look at this ear! This loaf is positively eavesdropping!
I think I have enough Cyril left for another loaf of my simple sourdough bread. I need 70g of Cyril for that loaf. I’m hope to prep that loaf later today as I’m now out of basic bread for me in the freezer. I have less than half a loaf of my sliced rye in the freezer so I need another loaf of bread. After weighing what I need for that loaf I should have enough left to feed again in 10-12 days so I can grow more Cyril. He’s back in the refrigerator now for a snooze after taking his picture just now.
I feel like I hardly have any Cyril left! I’m used to seeing a large jar of Cyril and there may only be 125g left of him in this jar and I need 70g for another loaf. Yes, there is still a jar of Cyril-discard in the refrigerator for scones but this is a weird feeling for me, just this smaller jar of viable well-fed Cyril. I’m hoping there’s enough for that second loaf. I know I need some Cyril left to “feed and seed.” Like I told @Abe I’m definitely a work in progress…
Maybe I need another cuppa coffee…
Baking blessings,
Leah
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Lovely looking loaf @Leah1. Excellent oven spring, nice caramelization and ear. This is not a work in progress. It’s a “working process”.
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Gorgeous bake!
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My starter from the fridge. Probably about 3 weeks since last fed:
How much I use to leaven a loaf of bread:
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@homebreadbaker Paul, I’ve been thinking of your lazy, slow sourdough recipe that you’ve posted to the site. I’ve included it to this thread:
Slow, Lazy Sourdough Bread | Breadtopia
Now that I’m attempting to keep a smaller amount of Cyril around I was curious about perhaps trying this recipe. The bread I’ve been baking as my basic sourdough needs 70g of Cyril. This bread of yours only needs a smidge of Cyril. Before trying your recipe/technique I have some questions first:
As much as I adore 100% whole grain myself, my husband can’t eat it. Can I substitute high protein bread flour for 50-75% of the whole grain and still have this technique work? I do have both Turkey Red and Hard White wheat berries that I can mill a combo or either/or so I can add some whole grain.
If needed, can I use 100% high protein bread flour?
What change would I need to the amount of water if I am using 25% whole grain; 50% whole grain; 100% bread flour?
Can I just use the “manual” setting on my Bread Machine to knead the dough? My stand mixer doesn’t have a dough hook and I’m no longer able to hand-knead bread dough.
I’m sure I have other questions. I just can’t think of them at the moment.
Thanks,
Leah