I don’t know the Firehook crackers, but I DO get a crispy cracker with this recipe and method. I think the keys to crisp are:
even roll out. I use a pasta roller … simple manual one and roll to 4. You can see size “sheets” in the photos above
I use olive oil as stated and I think the quantity is necessary for crisp baked crackers. I lightly brush some olive oil on top before sprinkling with coarse salt.
baking … this is probably going to take some tweaking with your oven and mix/roll out. I’ve made them so long that I know 400F and 9-12 minutes. I start checking at 9. The sweet spot is lightly brown. And it is easy to go from lightly brown to over brown. I have 2 baker half sheets … one is darker and the crackers bake a minute faster on that pan.
Edited to add … I have not tried convection, that is 400F without convection. Also, you can make them a bit thicker (bake slightly longer), but I find rolling to 4 perfect for me and my cheese and cracker habit
Thanks @anon66425146 … sorry, this place is as “social media” as I get, so while appreciate the help, I can’t get to the instagram info. I assume your last post relates to the recipe you included earlier in this thread from Apr '19, right? In the next day or two I’ll give it a try and see what I get.
Like @susanmcc99 noted, the Firehook snap will be hard to replicate I’m sure. I note that the list of ingredients includes yeast, yet the crackers have very little rise, almost uniformly flat. Who know what kind of mechanics are involved in their production…
I wonder, if treating the dough as if it was going into a bread dough might be worth trying. What I mean is working up the gluten from a high protein flour to see if rolling it thin and baking would produce a cracker the equivalent of a thin crispy bread crust. Thoughts on that anyone?
When I make sourdough discard crackers, which I often do, I always use bread flour. With the add ins for flavour, I have found that when I used AP flour they didn’t hold together as well especially when I rolled them out as thin as I like. Rolling them thin really is the key along with a long enough bake to getting them crisp.
Benny
Yes, I am the original poster of the recipe at the top. I added a 2nd comment with more photos of how my dough looks in process …about 2/3 from top post. The crackers do rise a bit but partly because I don’t pierce them. Additionally, my discard is pretty robust, i.e. not dead. I mix the dough and refrigerate it for a bit and then let it come to room temp. The dough does puff up a little.
I have made a Lavash “style” cracker bread from an olive oil bread dough. They are not quite as crisp as the discard crackers but I don’t roll as thin or bake for super crispness. The olive oil bread dough does not have near as much olive oil (in proportion to other ingredients) as the cracker dough does.
@anon66425146 - Thanks for the quick reply. Love the photo…my first thought was “I’d love to have those in front of my with a glass of white wine.”
I clipped out your original recipe (with other later important notes) and was about to bake this AM, when I realized that the fridge step was going to run into my wife’s canning afternoon. So, I’m off to the KA link to read up there, BUT I have a question that came from my read of this entire thread.
I noted that when @Barbarat made a batch without any “fat” she got “hard” crackers. You could read the word “hard” as “crispy”, so I’m wondering if you have any experience with modifying your recipe with reduced oil and its effect on the resulting “crisp factor”.
I am 100% positive that a glass of white wine was involved, even though that photo is from a 12/2012 post on my personal (non monetized) blog The entire procedure described.
And at that time, I was using commercial yeast vs natural leaven. Also, did not have a pasta roller and was using a small silicone hand roller. All to say that I think your thought of a bread dough … but my 2 cents being a dough with some olive oil … with a thin rollout and 400-450F for ??? might yield an even crisper cracker-bread. I don’t think yeast vs natural leaven is an issue except for flavor.
RE the KA link, if you have time and patience to read (skim?) the many comments, there are a number of thoughts and variations that I found helpful as I adjusted the original recipe to get what I wanted.
I have had the thought that the amount of oil is necessary for the crisp. I think @Barbarat was leaning toward “hard” but maybe she will see this and clarify. One thing you could do is mix the dough except for the oil, then divide it in 2 (or more) bits and try varying amounts of oil to see how it does and what you like in a side-by-side comparison. A little fussy, but sometimes experimenting is necessary and if you have enough wine and cheese … there you go!
I repeat myself on this next point, but I always worry people will taste them immediately and wonder what the fuss is about. These taste fairly bland right out of the oven. They develop the best flavor in 24-48 hours. They keep well for me in an airtight jar for 10-14 days (maybe longer that’s as long as a double batch lasts me). I live in NW Montana so not much humidity.
Edited to add: I happened to remember this Breadtopia reader recipe for sourdough rye flatbread. I just looked it up. It looks like a thin, crispy cracker-flatbread and there is no oil. Even though I commented, I have yet to try the recipe.
@anon66425146 - I did skim the KA info…too many “loved these!” to be really useful. For the moment I’m just after a neutral “get the cheese to the mouth” crispy cracker, so I’m not going to fool with herbs etc in the cracker itself.
29 minutes ago I mixed up your basic recipe (added 1/2 tsp salt), but had to do a short knead right away as I failed to realize that the olive oil was not going get cozy with the flour when the starter was direct from the fridge…maybe 2 minutes of kneading. Trying to avoid the “you are in my way” dance with my wife in the kitchen later today, I’m leaving it sitfor 3 hrs, then going to divide half into the fridge until after dinner. Plan to bake one half soon after dividing and the other much later today. (Yep, I am into experimenting as well.)
BTW: I have a Baking Buddy in Missoula…when you see him, say Hi for me, will ya? I’m in Northern CA so he can’t hear me very well, even when I shout…
For today, let’s leave it at “I must have done something very wrong” when I mixed and baked crackers using anon66425146’s recipe. I’m certain it must be me, but I can’t say how…so, instead of listing the issues I had, I’m going to step ALL the way back and try the seminal KA recipe from which I understand ea developed her winner. More later
Update: Yesterday I mixed and baked the “original” KA SD discard recipe referred to at the start of this thread. I followed the recipe exactly as written, using 57 grams of butter. The only thing I did at all differently at the “mix” stage was to have to knead in the butter in (about 2 minutes). After 40 minutes in the fridge, I tried to roll the dough out using my Kitchen Aid pasta roller. I worked a portion down in stages to #4, but the dough did not like it; it began to stretch thin in some areas and almost tear. I quickly shifted to rolling it out by hand, to about 1/6" (about equal to the #4 setting). THAT worked fine.
Yes, I ignored the KA recipe suggestion to roll out, prick and cut on parchment sheet…I rolled it out on floured board, pricked it with fork while still in the sheet, cut it with pasta roller and transferred eat cracker to baking sheet. Baked as directed. The result was good…not the goal I’m after, but good. A little too “flaky” for my taste, which I suspect was the result of the butter.
I’m going to try the same recipe tomorrow, but with olive oil.
@anon66425146, and/or anyone else …can you give me some perspective on the amount of oil to use. I ask this because my previous attempt using ea’s recipe (evolved from the original KA) came out waaay slippery. The dough (albeit using no whole wheat) was “pizza dough”. It did not handle well, and was a disaster through the Kitchen Aid pasta roller. Ea’s recipe called for only 41 g of oil, while comments on oil substitution for butter in the KA recipe suggest weigh for weight. That would put 57 g of olive into virtually the same flour amount. From experience, I know that is too much.
113 grams flour
248 grams discard starter
2 T herbs
1/4 cup “fat” … I use olive oil
I measure the olive oil by volume … don’t know weight.
Often I will have more or less starter so I figure % and adjust everything and cannot be all that precise with the oil. As shown in my post with more notes on dough handling, you can see the olive oil binds with cold ingredients. I knead it a bit as shown in the photos (This is my Jul '19 addition/comment). I knead on a floured counter so the dough can pick up a bit of flour if required but I don’t add much at this point. When I remove the dough from the frig to roll out, I lightly knead and if it seems to require a little flour, I add then. When I roll in the pasta maker, I typically flour the pieces after every other change in thickness, i.e. I start at 0, flour after I roll at 1 and at 3. Also, in the Jul '19, I roll small pieces as they can get unmanageable at the 3 and 4 setting if they are too large.
I haven’t looked at the KA recipe lately … I think one other commenter above had trouble with oil. She had wrapped the dough in cling wrap. I don’t know if it makes a difference, but I refrigerate the dough in a bowl with a shower cap kind of plastic covering, i.e. it is covered but air in the bowl.
Thanks EA…that was quick. Yes I used your exact recipe amounts. I failed to note that I used the 1/4 cup of oil…when I weighed it it came out right about 41 g, hence the reference in my last post.
I’ll remember the “flour dust between rolling steps” the next time. So used to not needing to do that with pasta that the idea skipped right past me at the time. Already was rolling smaller amounts to make them manageable.
I just made Liz’s recipe for the first time and the crackers are fantastic. Sadly, it has been one of those days and I forgot to poke the dough with a fork before baking, so I ended up with a bunch of puffy, but delicious, crackers. Immediately before that, I forgot to reduce the oven temperature from 500F to 450F for the final 15 minutes of baking a lovely 25% kamut sourdough boule. No photos today. LOL.
So glad you like the crackers! I never (almost never) poke the dough … some puff and some don’t.
Thanks for reporting results … sorry about your boule … hopefully it is just an appearance issue!
Just a note for others trying the recipe: I made a batch yesterday and while I usually roll to 4 in the pasta roller, the first batch seemed a bit thin and tender so I rolled the rest to 3. Just like with bread, you have to go by dough feel. For me, the dough seemed “normal”, but rolling, it was wanting to tear at 4 which was my first clue. AND, if you wanted a thicker cracker, you can certainly roll to 2 and bake longer. The beauty of making things from scratch … adjust to what you like.
Hi everyone! I’m having a “brain doesn’t want to work” kind of day! I love my sourdough discard pancakes but I’m getting tired of making them and they’re not something my hubby eats. I’d like to make some sourdough discard crackers BUT I don’t want to do any kneading; just the pour on the baking sheet and bake type. However, I can’t seem to find a complete recipe with weights and instructions and oven temp, time, etc. If anyone here has an extremely simple, no-nonsense, no-knead full recipe I can follow I’d love to have it. Trust me when I tell you I’m the laziest baker on this forum you’ll ever meet. I basically need a no-effort, just pour and bake recipe. I don’t know how to “wing it” so I need a full recipe to follow.
@Fermentada Melissa, you eluded to one the other day but I do need a full recipe to try to make some. I’ve got lots of Cyril in his jar and frankly as much as I love my sourdough pancakes I’d love to try something else with him. My sweet hubby loves a good cracker-type snack. I just have to keep them low sodium (I can always lower the amount of salt in a recipe or eliminate it entirely if needed) and they must now be dairy-free as well. I’ve got some “plant butter” I can use if needed. I also have a good EVOO and avocado oil. My flours include AP flour, whole wheat pastry flour and bread flour. My whole grain berries I can mill include Turkey Red, Hard White Whole Wheat, Whole Rye and Kamut.
So, I’m looking to our beloved forum for help as my Internet search has become too long, too complicated and unsuccessful.
I’ve only ever done the wing-it method for this type of cracker.
Enough water and oil to be able to spread the starter, otherwise it’s too springy and doesn’t spread thin.
Herbs, nutritional yeast, salt etc randomly thrown in.
The baking time and temp are in the post I linked to, but I was winging that too – opening the oven and adding a few minutes…
@Fermentada You crack me up, Melissa! My husband’s response to my wanting to make crackers was, “Just wing it, Leah!” I might…but I’m still wanting a recipe!
Just made some whole wheat discard crackers with wheat germ, chia and flax seeds. Here is the recipe: Sourdough Crackers w/ Flax & Chia Seeds
I substituted whole wheat flour for the AP and added10g of wheat germ too. I love the idea of including some nutritional yeast. I’ll add that to my next batch!
