Just went out to try and find some Masa Harina to experiment with but couldn’t find any. Did find some corn flour though. Can you guess what my next bake will be? Have an idea to swap the AP flour with wholegrain spelt. Think the corn flour, rye and spelt will make a very nice mix.
If you are able to find any Masa Harina Benny then it would be nice to see a write-up of an experiment. Would be very interesting to know how it fares as a sourdough and you have the means of measuring the pH level at each stage.
I’ll look for it but currently I am in an oversupply situation with flours since I got that shipment from Anita’s which wasn’t expected. I’ll need to keep baking to reduce my supply before buying anything else.
Good idea Abe! I tried it. I made up an experimental levain using Masa Harina. Then I thought I needed a Control. So I made up another with 10g Nicky Parsons, 20g water and 20g Corn Meal! I then headed off to bed! This morning the Corn Meal mix was beginning to bubble well. The Masa mix was not as bubbly but was showing bubbles too. Both had a bit of dome happening.
When I mixed them I noticed that the Masa sucked up the water much more than the Corn Meal. I had to add an extra 10g water to get a similar mix. Not sure how that works out in a full loaf recipe.
Next step, I will make two recipes, one with the Masa and one with Meal. I have used Masa for my World Famous Corn Muffins and have enjoyed the result. I will report further results!
That tells us a fair bit @Hornsmith. Firstly, it does work albeit slower. And secondly, it soaks up more water. So your Broa de Milho with Masa Harina will need more water and a longer ferment, Good idea about the control levain. I look forward to your two bakes and hearing how they compare. Make the cornmeal one first so you know how the dough should feel then you’ll have a better idea of how much extra water is needed for the Masa Harina. And watch that fermentation expecting the Masa Harina to take longer.
P.s. Would be nice if you shared your muffin recipe over on the Readers Recipes section. Unless it’s top secret? And what’s the reason behind your starter’s name? Googled Nicky Parsons and she’s in the Jason Bourne films.
Long time bread baker, recent sourdough baker. I named my first starter, Jason Bourne, for my favorite movie franchise. Probably watch a Bourne movie every month. I grew impatient with Jason and started a second, named Marie Kreutz, for Jason’s late girl friend. That seemed to perk Jason up and so I had two growing starters. Then I hit on the idea of Rye Flour starter and Nicky was born. I probably thought about this too much, but its all in good fun! Thanks for asking!
The Corn Muffin recipe is a poorly kept secret which I will post on Readers Recipes.
Methods:
Cleaned my mill of wheat flour with some corn.
Double-milled 30g yellow dent corn. (It was kinda messy/inefficient because I milled into a tiny bowl. When all was said and done, I had 26g corn flour.)
Mixed in 74g water.
In a second bowl, I mixed 26g masa harina and 74g water.
Here’s a video of the thirstiness difference.
The corn flour solution had a pH of 6.2
The masa harina solution had a pH of 6.37
So there ya go! Minimal pH difference but huge hydration needs difference (which likely is what impacted the speed of fermentation in your test starters).
“Your water vs mine” differences could impact the pHs but not the difference between the two.
A different corn variety might be slightly higher or lower, and home-nixtamalizing might yield a difference too – how aggressively you rinse the corn.
(Yes, we’re having huevos rancheros at my house later this morning I combined the tests and added some more masa harina and water to get 4 tortillas.)
Very nicely done Melissa. With some interesting results. Must say, after learning about the process Masa Harina goes through, i’d have expected it to be much more alkaline than ordinary corn flour. That assumption can be put to bed. And what a difference when it comes to absorption.
Thank you for this. Enjoy your tortillas. I’ve never tried Masa Harina before but i’ve seen it at Wholefoods. I’ll have to buy some.
In the middle of Broa de Milho. Bought what looks like a really lovely very fine corn flour. The scald seemed quite dry but didn’t wish to add more water at this stage preferring to alter the hydration at the final dough stage. With a little effort I managed to get all the corn flour hydrated then pressed it into one lump and let it rest overnight while the levain matured. Come morning the texture had changed and it was really nice to work with. No extra water was needed.
Thank you Melissa. Just enjoyed some toasted and it has very nice flavour. The resulting loaf reminds me of barley bread. Dense but soft and flavoursome. Makes a change from the usual sourdough and can be appreciated in its own right. Shaping was a pleasure with less fuss than usual doughs. Kept the risen dough in the bowl and lightly dusted it with flour. Carefully flipped it over with a dough scraper and lightly dusted the other side. Then shaped in the bowl very easily. One bowl, no messy bench, very little flour needed and quick. I can imagine this will go very nicely with some cheese as a side while having tomato soup. Like one would have a cheese toast with tomato soup. Also goes very nicely with oily fish.
Abe: when you say fine corn flour, I assume you know that corn flour in the UK is what we call cornstarch here, and is very different from our cornmeal which is gritty.
Hi @oaklandpat. Yes, i’m aware that cornflour in the UK is corn starch, a very fine white powder, but this was yellow corn flour. Finely milled cornmeal. I once bought cornflour and saw the error straight away. Chose this one as I could see it was actual corn flour through the packet and it was in the flour section of the store. Cornflour is usually kept with other baking ingredients like bicarbonate of soda etc. Won’t make that mistake again and whenever I buy corn flour i’ll triple check it’s not starch. You are correct that in the UK the wording can be confusing but to make it more so some companies do sell fine cornmeal as corn flour. I think it should be standardised!
So true. I am married to a Brit, and as the saying goes, at times we are separated by a common language. I have never seen the finely milled corn that you have. Seems like our “fine” cornmeal still has a gritty texture. I am going for round two of the Pain du Soliel as I was the lucky recipient of a large amount of locally grown heirloom rye.
Just checked on the back of the packet and it says milled from wholegrain corn so it is the flour how we understand it. I’m thinking they’ve done it very much like rimacinata vs. semolina. Done a good job with it too. Although of the many broa de milho videos i’ve seen it’s commonly done with something closer to fine polenta. Fine(er) but still grit like. Next time i’ll try it using cornmeal. Like the idea of locally grown heirloom rye. Looking forward to hearing what you think of it. And of course that uses cornmeal too.
@Fermentada@Abe@Benito
It has taken me a bit to complete my assignment (self inflicted) of making two BdM with regular corn meal or Masa Harina. As a new to SD bread baker, my first attempt with corn meal fell flat (quite literally). That I determined was because Nicky wasn’t strong enough. It is heavy load to carry. Yesterday I tried the Masa variant. I used half corn meal and half Masa along with the rye flour. Processing: 60ED6AEC-D441-4161-ABCF-A825FE53FFC2.jpeg… Processing: BBB77DB5-EA58-456B-9A0C-EBDBA48AE70B.jpeg…
It got up to 202F and set overnight. It cracked well but the crumb was VERY dense. To its right in the pics is my SD sandwich bread which my chief editor and wife loved. She was not a fan at all of the Broa (she liked the look). I loved the crust and flavor but wonder if a stronger levain might be what I need?
I think your Broa de Milho density looks typical/true to style, and you’d maybe get only a little more aeration if you fermented the dough more. Your SD sandwich bread looks great too. I’m sure many can relate to your wife’s bread preferences; Broa de Milho is probably not for everyone.
Here’s a blog post I was just reading (looking for the Portuguese bread that everyone in my family loves: basically puffy white rolls with chewy crust, made with lard or shortening I believe). I got sidetracked and read here that some bakers bake the Broa de Milho on a cabbage leaf.
I combined the tests and added some more masa harina and water to get 4 tortillas.)
