I began my starter journey 2 weeks ago and believe I followed the same method that several others have on here resulting in amazing activity by day 3 and then things fall flat. I followed some steps on another thread which have been very helpful, but I am at a point of feeling a little lost on what I have, how good it is, and what I should do from here. Any help you can provide is appreciated! I have 2 starters, here is the story on each:
Starter 1
Started 21 days ago.
Whole wheat/bread flour starter.
Great rise and bubbling by day 3 then everything fell flat.
I’ve honestly lost track of things I’ve done to keep it going, but it has always had a great smell, no hooch, and some bubbling activity. Just little to no rise.
Kept in cabinet in house that is typically 69-72 degrees.
Last night I fed it a 1:2:2 ratio, half bread flour half whole wheat. Within 4 hours it doubled and this is where it was just under 12hours later.
Starter 2
Started with discard from starter 1.
Storage information the same as Starter 1.
Again, I’ve lost track of different techniques I’ve tried, but after a 1:1:1 feed 2 days ago, it doubled within 12 hours. I stirred at 12 hours, it didn’t rise again. I fed a 1:2:2 ratio (whole wheat and bread) at 24hrs, it doubled within 4 hours and is at its photographed stated just under 12 hours from that feeding.
I think I put myself on the starter hamster wheel and have fully confused myself on where to go from here. Thanks again for any help you guys can provide!
I think those starters look good to bake with. You could try this simple recipe, and if you want to use bread flour and some whole wheat flour in it instead of all purpose flour, just add a little more water – see the video for target dough consistency, and the photos for target dough expansion during the two rises (bulk fermentation and final proof).
I’d just work with one starter – combine your jars after you pull from them for the recipe.
Discard as desired and feed 1:1:1. When the starter has close to doubled, refrigerate it and relax until the next time you want to bake.
Try not to let the starter double and sit unfed for more than a few hours at room temp. Either feed it or hibernate it in the refrigerator.
You might find the feeding strategies in this article helpful:
Thank you so much, Melissa! I appreciate this more than you know. So exciting to know these are bake ready! I am going to try the things and recipe you suggested. I will report back!
I look forward to hearing how it goes!
I should clarify “my feed it or hibernate it” statement. If your starter doubles and keeps expanding more and more, of course it can keep sitting out at room temp. What I really meant was try not to let it peak and then deflate and sit deflated overnight at room temp, especially in summertime.
If I wanted to bake a couple times a week, it seems like keeping it in the fridge is no problem based on your link? This is great news! I feel like I have been wasting so much flour.
Do you normally feed with AP or bread flour? Sorry if it was in there and I missed.
All good I feed my starter anything and everything (with starch) either because that flour is most handy or because I’m developing a recipe where I want to be able to say everything in the dough is spelt or rye or _____. Within a few of high ratio feeds of one flour, there is less than a gram of the previous flour.
If a recipe uses a lot of starter, like 250g starter for 500g flour, and the goal of the bread is super-gluten airiness, e.g. my ciabatta recipes, I will use bread flour in the starter.
Thanks, Melissa! I really love your approach to all of this. You’ve really got me excited about this again vs feeling overwhelmed-thank you!
Quick status update and question.
Shortly after getting your message, I decided to try the bread recipe you sent. It did not go perfectly as you can see in the photo (it is really dense at the bottom-do you think my bulk proof wasn’t long enough even though I did 8hrs?) but I learned a lot and really enjoyed the process. I am excited to try again! I would love any feedback you can provide!
Now for my starter, after I used it yesterday I didn’t feed it. Realizing now that was the wrong call and I misread your directions. I waited until this morning (24hrs after its last feed) and fed it a 1:1:1 ratio with bread flour. At 4 hours I had little movement, at 12hrs it is as photographed. I have movement, but it doesn’t seem as strong as it was yesterday. Couple of questions: if this doubled, does it look like something you would bake with or is there still work to do? If I want to get to a place of using your refrigerator method and let’s say I wanted to bake tomorrow, would I put it in now so it doesn’t peak over night and then pull it out in the morning to let it finish rising?
Yup - you have it right; your dough is significantly underproofed.
All timing information really ought to be removed from sourdough recipes. It’s only ever going to be the correct instruction by lucky happenstance.
Public service announcement to all beginner sourdough bakers everywhere: if you read a recipe and it says, bulk proof for 4-6 hours, you should pretend it says bulk proof until the dough expands in volume 1.5X - 2X. If a recipe says bulk proof for 8 hours, you should pretend it says bulk proof until the dough expands in volume 1.5X - 2X. If a recipe says bulk proof for 12 hours, you should pretend it says bulk proof until the dough expands in volume 1.5X - 2X. If a recipe says bulk proof for 18 hours, you should pretend it says bulk proof until the dough expands in volume 1.5X - 2X.
Ignore anything that tells you how long to proof your dough and just aim for volume expansion of 1.5X - 2X. That will get you in the right ballpark. Then you can fine-tune from there on future uses of the same recipe.
Good dough/recipe info from @homebreadbaker – and for more sourdough baking info, check this article out:
As for the starter, if it is taking 12 hours to double after a 1:1:1 feed, it may have been a bit harmed by the 24 hours unfed at room temp. Discard/feed it when it hits peak expansion until it can double in less than 8 hours. If your kitchen is pretty hot, then aim for less than 6 hours. This will probably just be one more round of feeding at room temp.
It’s hard to remember all the steps if they feel like rules, but maybe just think of it as a population of critters in that paste that multiply by eating, get really active/hungry when hot, and semi-dormant when cold. When the population in that paste is huge, the food is close to running out. So either hibernate it or feed it.
I use my starter when it is at peak and feed the scrapings in the jar right away (let it expand some and refrigerate), but this guy hibernates the scrapings. Both methods are fine.
Melissa-you are exactly what I needed on this journey! Haha! I have been looking at this process so analytically that I have made it stressful and not as enjoyable as it should be. Looking back, I’ve had the most success when I’ve ignored the “rules.” My gut told me it wasn’t ready, I will listen to that next time. Thank you! I will read this link tonight.
Notes on the starter- I did still have my other starter. It isn’t the one I used on my bread but it was a 1:2:2 feed that I was experimenting with. After reading the things you’ve sent, it makes sense why my 1:2:2 starter looked better after 24hrs than the other. I’m not sure if this is “bread ready” but I decided to give it a shot and make another loaf just to keep working on my form. My kids like helping so we made an event out of it. After I used what I needed, I held back 40 grams and did a 1:1:1 feed on that. After 6hrs it has slightly risen.
I did feed my other starter a 1:1:1 feed last night. It is 14hrs later and it has barely moved but my house has also been 66 degrees all day. I will keep with the 1:1:1 feed when peaked, like you said.
I will consolidate the 2 or put my full focus on 1 based on how the next 24hrs go. My goal is to focus on just 1, and then move to fridge storage once I have it more active again, as you recommended. Thanks again for everything.
Ok, perfect. I’ll thicken things up a bit on my next feed!
Well, I have good news and bad news. Good news is I didn’t underproof it! Bad news is I over proofed it. It was a sticky, non conforming mess. Weirdly, I’m still feeling really good about everything-third times a charm! My friend suggested putting 40grams in a 2oz cup next to my dough to help me better understand when it’s done and what “doubled” looks like. Do you think that is a good idea or do you have a better suggestion?
Good news about my starter at least! It doubled in 12 hours vs 24hrs today so we are making progress. I am going to feed again tonight and have whole wheat, AP, bread, and some dark rye on hand. Still OK to use any or is there one you prefer with where I am at? I did 50/50 AP and whole wheat this morning. Should I stay course with a 1:1:1 feed?
Thanks for checking in on me Really appreciating your support!
Here’s an aliquot jar in action in a yeast recipe. Definitely helpful, especially for fast moving recipe like that yeast one where the first rise and stretching and folding stage overlap completely.
The first few years I baked, I just used the same bowls so I had a spot in mind that signified “done” for single and double batches of most recipes.
Nowadays I usually put the dough in a 2 qt bucket or an 8 cup Pyrex. The straight walls and measuring marks let me track expansion and demonstrate it for people following a recipe.
Good news this weekend! My starter took off! I fed 1:1:1, 25% rye 75% AP, yesterday morning. I tried an experiment, instead of discarding I fed all and fed all and then put half in a Pyrex measuring cup. My starter seemed happier in the Pyrex. Is there anything to the container environment for a starter? Id assume so. I was gone from a window of about 2-5, so I am not exactly sure when it happened but it more than doubled! I was so excited I made dough from the recipe you sent. I didn’t even care if that meant I was getting up early to check on it . I put the rest of the discard in the fridge and fed it. Now this morning, almost 12 hours later, it has barely doubled. I did a 1:1:1 with just AP last night. What should I change? I just want to make sure it is strong and then will move it to less feedings/fridge storage.
Here is a photo of my third attempt! I think I finally timed the bulk proof right-9h hours last night. I will put them in the fridge and bake when I get home from work tonight. Fingers crossed!
Do you have any tips for burned bottoms? I followed the recipe exact last time, but my bottom burned. I could smell it happening fairly early into the process but wasn’t sure what to do. My oven has a tendency to do that to baked goods. I had the rack height mid-upper.
I wouldn’t worry about your starter at this point. The population is established. I don’t think it’s worth the stress of trying to pursue consistent behavior out of it, except to the extent that it leavens dough.
A lot of cottage bakeries use plastic tubs for their starter because the weight would be unmanageable otherwise. As a home baker, I prefer glass because it dries better in the dishwasher (doesn’t flip around or stay wet). There’s no need to change your jar regularly, but since my levains and my starter are one and the same, the volume varies dramatically, so moving it to different size jars makes sense for me.
We’ve got an FAQ on burnt bread bottoms here under the baking tab:
Cast iron tends to be the culprit more than a particular oven, but there are plenty of solutions.
I should add that what I mean by “consistent behavior” is a precise feeding yielding a specific time to double. The population of microbes in your starter is going to wax and wane, and that is okay.
If you were running a bakery and needed absolute predictability to schedule staff, then you might do very precise feedings, keep the starter at an exact temperature, and feed at a specific time interval. Even then I suspect you’d have surprises
Otherwise you could even be like the first sourdough baker I ever met in person: he didn’t even have a separate sourdough starter, he just keeps a portion of his bread dough for the next bake.
I feed my starter anything and everything (with starch) either because that flour is most handy or because I’m developing a recipe where I want to be able to say everything in the dough is spelt or rye or _____. Within a few of high ratio feeds of one flour, there is less than a gram of the previous flour.
Really appreciating your support!
. I put the rest of the discard in the fridge and fed it. Now this morning, almost 12 hours later, it has barely doubled. I did a 1:1:1 with just AP last night. What should I change? I just want to make sure it is strong and then will move it to less feedings/fridge storage.
