Vigorous starter, but dough didn't rise

Baking Techniques
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Hello All - New to the forum. I searched my problem, but didn’t find it, so I’m hoping one of you experienced sourdough bakers can help.

I seem to have built a good starter - lots of bubbles, pleasant smell, and a bit floated in water. I read that that is a good sign for baking readiness, so I jumped in last night with a sourdough sandwich bread recipe that does a bulk rise overnight. The only thing I did differently was to knead rather than use the dough hook on my mixer. The dough did not rise one iota in 12 hours. I’m wondering if kneading was a mistake. This is my first foray into sourdough. Feedback?

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A bit more info one your starter please. How did you make it?

If a starter rises then so should your dough. Kneading the dough would have done no harm.

BTW your dough can be saved. Simply add some dried yeast, knead till fully distributed and carry on as normal. Providing you have some yeast that is.

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Hi Abe. Thanks for your reply. The starter began as 60g of whole wheat flour and 60
g of water. Each day I kept 60g of starter and added 60g each of all purpose flour and water. The starter has always gotten bubbly and has risen, but has never doubled in volume in 24 hours. House temp is about 68 degrees most of the time. I have tried putting it in the oven with the light on, but still no doubling in volume.

Sadly, no yeast in the house and it’s a hot commodity still in the stores. Last night I went ahead and baked the dough just to see what I would get. I ended up with a rather dense 2.5" loaf that didn’t brown much. But it’s edible and tastes like sourdough! Maybe I’ll keep feeding the starter and try again in a few days.

Should I be concerned that the starter doesn’t double in volume?

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Have you got any wholegrain in the house? Wholegrain wheat better and wholegrain rye even better! Try repeating the same feeds for now but switch to wholegrain or 50:50.

68°F is quite cool and you should be aiming for 75-78°F. Have you got any room on top of the fridge? The fridge gives off heat and its just about the right temperature.

See how that goes over the next day or two.

How old is your starter?

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I’ve got Sprouts brand 100% whole wheat flour. Packaging says 30g whole grain per serving - whatever that means.

I do have room on top of the fridge, so I will move the starter up there.

This starter is only about a week old.

Baby steps…

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I think what they mean, although not very well put, is that it’s 100% wholegrain and 30g per serving.

One week is quite young and needs more time. So do the switch and keep it on top of the fridge. Perhaps with the next feed put a rubber band at where the starter comes up to and take a photo 12 hours later and 24 hours later and post it back here so we can see how it reacts.

For now keep to your standard feeds using wholegrain or 50:50.

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I have been using a rubber band on the jar which is how I know the volume is not doubling. I’ll take progress pics after tonight’s feeding with the wholegrain flour.

I think my fridge is too well insulated. The air at the top is the same temp as the rest of the house and the metal feels cool to the touch. My oven actually has a proof setting, but it gets too warm at about 83 degrees. Sigh… Maybe a heating pad? I’ll figure out something to get the temp to the optimal range.

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To add to @anon44372566 's comments … and some difference in thought :slight_smile:

I have a starter going on 5 years old that has always been white flour, albeit a high protein (13.16 per pkg label 5 g/38 g). Also, I live in NW MT U.S. (3300 ft altitude) and keep my house 62-64 winter, and refrigerated to 68F summer. BUT, my water is non treated well water, i.e. no chemical … straight out of the ground.

I agree that a week is young and some whole grain should speed things up. I would not be concerned with temp (based on my own experience) so much as is there something in water or flour that is inhibiting things. If your starter was bubbly and floated, there should have been some rise in the bread, so … maybe try a different water source and if you can, even a different flour (I know this is tough right now).

My starter rise as well as my baking rises, sometimes take a bit longer with the cooler temps I keep, but I normally find that things fall right in the midrange, time-wise, of recipe guidelines.

I guess the other thing as well as temp … are you at altitude or in very arid conditions?

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Hi Liz,

I live in northern Colorado, about 4900’ altitude. Humidity in the house is around 40%.
The water I have been using is filtered from the fridge and heated slightly to cool to lukewarm.
I’m going to try feeding with wholegrain flour for a day or two and see if I have better luck. I also have Breadtopia’s high protein bread flour. I read so many conflicting things about starters. Like that you shouldn’t switch flours once you begin your starter. It’s frustrating. It shouldn’t be this complicated. I mean, how many thousands of years have people been making bread???

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So, you have very similar conditions to me … 1500 feet more altitude, but that should not have much affect, in fact I think our range of altitude helps things move along but not too fast like over 5-5500.

Anyway, I hesitated commenting because I do know that for every 2 bakers there are 4 opinions and it can be difficult to sort out what to do, especially when you are learning. I did comment because before I started my own starter, I read all sorts of things about needing to have higher temps. When I finally just gave it a shot … no issues.

A. There is NO problem with changing flour in starter. You can transition your starter to whole wheat, rye, white … whatever you want. A lot of bakers like a rye or rye-whole grain starter. I started with the white and it works well for me. ***

B. You are absolutely correct. It should not (and need not) becomplicated. But even among well known professional bakers, you will get the “it must be this or it must be that way” scenarios … vastly different between bakers. You know what? It is flour, water and salt :slight_smile:

My 2 cents here … stick to your feeding plan and see what happens with the whole grain. Then … try the no knead sourdough recipe on this site to start … no fuss. The Breadtopia bread flour and the Sprouts whole wheat should work well and I wouldn’t think there is anything in either flour that is inhibiting things. Water - your procedure should be fine. You can also try leaving the water at room temp the day before you bake. I know people do that with city system tap water to allow inhibiting stuff to evaporate. One concession I make in light of my cool house is that I do warm my bowls with hot water before mixing … hot water, pour it out … bowl is warm and then a cover is keeping some extra humidity in the bowl.

*Edited to add. While you are waiting on your starter, if you do plan to try the no knead sourdough, take some time to watch the video. When you go to bake, pay attention to how the dough feels. You are going for the look and feel per the video which might mean a bit more flour or less. I like to error on the side of less flour starting the mix and then add to the consistency. The no knead recipe is pretty forgiving on this, though, which is why it is a great start.

*** A bit ago, I started a whole wheat and yogurt “stiff” starter for a specific recipe. It was ready in 5 days. I’m not advocating that, just noting that I tried that, it worked well, but I prefer the simplicity of my white 100% hydration starter as well as the results.

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Thanks Liz (and Abe, too), I appreciate all your feedback. I will keep on keeping on and give my started more time to mature. I WILL prevail!

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If you decide to play around with temperature, one suggestion is to boil some water, put the water in a glass, and put the glass and the starter in the microwave with the door shut. Obviously, do NOT turn on the microwave!! It provides very good insulation. I have a cold house and do have a proofer I use a lot to bring temps into the 70s. But on occasion I’ve used the microwave insulation method and it has worked well.

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Hi Arlo,

This is a great idea to use overnight. I will experiment with this method.
Thanks for the suggestion.

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Same for me. My starter has no trouble eating through any flour its given. This idea of starters not liking a change in flour is a sourdough myth. A healthy starter will chomp its way through any kind of flour. What you might experience is a change of character, for example bigger/smaller air bubbles or how much it rise, simply because different flours at the same hydration absorb the water at differently. All a starter needs is the food which is the sugars in the flour. Feeding wholegrain just adds healthy nutrients to a starter but it’s perfectly possible to make one from white flour. I wouldn’t advise bleached flour as that’s been stripped of all the goodies to get a starter going. Once its mature then thats a different story.

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Hi, I am new to bread baking and just created my 1st starter last month. I had similar problems to what you describe. My starter seemed to produce a lot of gas bubbles but never doubled in size. It had a nice sour taste but otherwise seemed weak and sluggish. I was using filtered city water (NYC) and switched to a bottled spring water with electrolytes. This made all the difference to my starter. My starter easily doubled size in 4hrs after just 2 feedings. It now triples when I feed it for baking. A water change maybe something you may want to try.

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Hi James,

Thanks for the tip with the water change. I will keep that in mind if what I am doing now does not produce results. My city water, which goes through a filter in the fridge, is pretty good, but I will put spring water on my grocery list just in case. Cheers.