Best of luck. Hope this next step proves successful.
Thank you!
I put some pizza process photos in the thread below, which you may find helpful. Specifically, there are photos of the beginning and end of the first rise (bulk fermentation). I started the dough on May 1, and later that same day I refrigerated it.
The next evening, I went into my fridge and flipped the dough in the bowl, de-gassing it a bit. This is because even when it’s covered, the top of the dough dries out a little over time. Also “punching down the dough” – I’m not that aggressive in this scenario, that’s just the term – strengthens the gluten.
The afternoon of May 3, I took the dough out of the refrigerator and let it warm up and rise a little more. To about double the original size – you can see it in the bowl in a photo.
I shaped balls and left them covered with a larger bowl on my counter for a couple of hours, while I did other things and while the oven and stone preheated.
Thank you @Fermentada!!!
@anon44372566 and @Fermentada, can letting the dough bulk ferment at room temp for 5 hours make it stickier?
I did everything autolyse etc and then just let it sit and ferment at room temp for 5 hours. It proofed super high but that seems right to me? then shaped it and put it in fridge til the next day. It wasnt unmanageable but it did seem a little harder to deal with and the dough did stick to my hands a little more.
I’d guess it’s probably a good degree of fermentation and the sweating in the refrigerator that made the dough feel sticky – I think this is good though, as long as you can get the dough stretched out and onto parchment or a pizza peel with a little extra flour on your hands.
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Another question, how do I obtain more air bubbles/pockets in my dough? I’ve played with fermentation time but it’s still not as bubbly as I’d like. Does it have to do with the amount of starter I’m using? Or should I play with more water? Currently doing this (doubled recipe):
800 grams caputo 00
400 grams of senora whole wheat
815 grams water
200 grams starter
22 grams evo
27 grams salt
Larger bubbles has a lot to do with flour and hydration but also handling! The more wholegrain used the more difficult it’ll be. Upping the hydration helps but is not the be all and end all. How much are you degassing the dough?
I’m not degassing. At what point should i? after bulk fermentation before shape then fridge overnight?
If you aren’t degassing then that’s not the issue. I thought you might be degassing too much when shaping into a round which might result in smaller bubbles.
Are you developing the gluten with plenty of kneading early on? Giving the dough long enough to regroup after shaping the balls? And shaping in a way that gives you a thick cornicione (fancy word for outer crust)? And using a hot preheated baking surface?
Try tinkering with those variables, one at a time.
Also maybe try using stronger 00 flour, like this one, which is 13.2% protein
@Fermentada Great rec, thank you!! I’m going to lessen my senora wheat and uses stronger 00. I’ve been using the blue caputo pizza flour and a 13.5 protein high bread flour (switching off)
I think at these steps lies my issue…(I’m using @anon44372566’s recommendation with autolyse as the first step
1: mix the bread flour (or 00) and senora (or wheat) in a bowl. Add in 425g water and mix just until there’s no dry flour left. Cover and let rest for 30 min - 1 hour.
** this step**
2: Sprinkle the salt over the dough, followed by the levain and olive oil. Dimple it all in then fold and squeeze the dough till everything is fully incorporated. Cover the bowl and leave to rest.
I think I’m not squeezing properly (or should I be kneading even?) lately when I’ve been doing this it doesnt look like everything is fully incorporated (i can see darker spots where levain is). That’s because I thought it shouldn’t be over worked at this point because my next steps are:
strech and fold 4 times
leave to ferment until doubled
shape
fridge until next day
How about including the levain in the autolyse and holding a bit of water back (about 20g)?
This way the levain will be fully incorporated. Just mix the levain in the water and stir till fully distributed. Then add the flour and mix till there are no dry bits left. Autolyse for 30 minutes. Then add the salt, pour the 20g water over the salt and begin to squeeze and fold the dough to get it incorporated. Once you’re satisfied its incorporated well add the oil and this time knead till the gluten is fully formed like @Fermentada does and suggests. Then cover and leave till doubled.
The rest as usual.
Another great idea. I’m going to try today. I’ll send pictures! Thank you as always!
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Agree on the hydration level and this appears to be 72%. That is 5% higher than I use for pizza dough.
A few other random suggestions:
- Try reducing the water (perhaps to the 67%) and increasing the EVOO used. The EVOO you use seems low to me for making so much pizza dough.
- Be careful to leave thicker dough at the edge of the pizza. I find this more important and more difficult to manage than avoiding degassing during fermentation.
Success! Let me know if you see the images! Played around with my flour and hydration a ton. She’s pretty!
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You’ve nailed it. Nice thin base with a lovely crumb edge.
Seriously amazing looking pizza. I love the red pie too.
I made pizza last weekend using the formula of @j4m3s4j It was a great dough to work with and tasted awesome. Here’s a link to the formula on Instagram, swipe through the photos to the grams and percentages. He uses a mix of tipo 00, bread flour and Kamut.
Putting the starter’s flour and water into the overall flour and water amounts, here’s a comparison. I hear you @SingKevin – this is especially helpful for comparisons.
Melissa’s Pizza (20% starter)
- 86% strong refined flour (bread or tipo 00)
- 14% whole grain hard red flour
- 68% water
- 2.1% olive oil
- 1.8% salt
James’s Pizza (15% starter)
- 87% strong refined flour (bread or tipo 00)
- 13% whole grain Kamut
- 74% water
- 1.8% salt
Process Notes (this is my preferred way to make pizza):
- Mix the dough and either knead on the counter until it’s smooth and elastic or do a few rounds of coil folding like this https://youtu.be/GQvMIn-_7z4
- Leave the dough out at room temperature until it’s expanded “some.”
- Refrigerate it overnight or for multiple days.
- Bring it out of the refrigerator and fold it into the bowl (for strength and to redistribute hydration - top gets dry)
- Let it rise until about double (if it was already doubled when you brought it out of the refrigerator, let it rise less – maybe 50% growth)
- Preshape into balls and let it rise some more, maybe 1-2 hours, before stretching, topping, and baking. Refrigerate the dough balls if you’re not ready to use them.
- Cook as per the instructions in the recipe at the top of this thread.
My process is a tad bit different.
- Mix all the ingredients
a.) water & starter
b.) salt
c.) flours - Wait 20 minutes or so.
- Two sets of coil folds with about a 20 minute break in between.
- Another coil fold 30 minutes to an hour later.
- Another fold later if it needs it.
- When bulk looks to be near 75% complete, I weigh and pre-shape.
- About 20 minutes later I do a final shaping and place in a container. Sometimes I oil them sometimes I don’t. Just depends on how the dough is feeling.
- Place in fridge.
- Use them over the course of 3 days.
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