I think the only bit im confused about is when she says this:
“No matter how long you retard the dough or don’t retard it, aim for doubling or close to it. This is a little hard to track if you flip and de-gas the dough because you’re storing it in the refrigerator for a long time, and you want to keep the top of the dough from drying out. But pizza is quite forgiving if you overproof in my experience.”
is she basically saying if you decide to do a slow ferment and put the dough directly in the fridge for a slower fermentation, you have to take it out to degas it (why??) and flip it so the air in there doesn’t dry it out (but it’s covered?)? And shes saying that part is hard to track because if you degas you lose your marker on how much it had risen.
I think my method will be to let it rise to the fullest it can be, double, and mark that down in terms of time (in a warm kitchen i feel like 6-8 hours?). Then do as you said, shape and put them in the fridge until ready to bake. And, again, the balls can be stored in the fridge once shaped for 48-72 hours right? I’ll play with it. Sorry for all of the questions just making this a part of my repertoire as a private chef and my speciality hasn’t been baking / bread and i want it to be!
I haven’t tried Melissa’s recipe yet but I do intend on doing so soon. For me to answer your question I’d have to have tried it myself or perhaps @Fermentada can help.
I think you’re doing great as you are. You’re getting good pizzas! And that’s the main thing. Since you’re liking this way and it suits you then the next progression would be to wait till the dough is 80% risen after the last stretch and fold then proceed onto dividing and shaping into balls after which put them in an oiled tray (try and find a deep tray) covered with plastic wrap and into the fridge till you’re ready to use them. A day or two should be fine)
When ready bring them up to room temperature and proceed as normal.
I put some pizza process photos in the thread below, which you may find helpful. Specifically, there are photos of the beginning and end of the first rise (bulk fermentation). I started the dough on May 1, and later that same day I refrigerated it.
The next evening, I went into my fridge and flipped the dough in the bowl, de-gassing it a bit. This is because even when it’s covered, the top of the dough dries out a little over time. Also “punching down the dough” – I’m not that aggressive in this scenario, that’s just the term – strengthens the gluten.
The afternoon of May 3, I took the dough out of the refrigerator and let it warm up and rise a little more. To about double the original size – you can see it in the bowl in a photo.
I shaped balls and left them covered with a larger bowl on my counter for a couple of hours, while I did other things and while the oven and stone preheated.
@anon44372566 and @Fermentada, can letting the dough bulk ferment at room temp for 5 hours make it stickier?
I did everything autolyse etc and then just let it sit and ferment at room temp for 5 hours. It proofed super high but that seems right to me? then shaped it and put it in fridge til the next day. It wasnt unmanageable but it did seem a little harder to deal with and the dough did stick to my hands a little more.
I’d guess it’s probably a good degree of fermentation and the sweating in the refrigerator that made the dough feel sticky – I think this is good though, as long as you can get the dough stretched out and onto parchment or a pizza peel with a little extra flour on your hands.
Another question, how do I obtain more air bubbles/pockets in my dough? I’ve played with fermentation time but it’s still not as bubbly as I’d like. Does it have to do with the amount of starter I’m using? Or should I play with more water? Currently doing this (doubled recipe):
800 grams caputo 00
400 grams of senora whole wheat
815 grams water
200 grams starter
22 grams evo
27 grams salt
Larger bubbles has a lot to do with flour and hydration but also handling! The more wholegrain used the more difficult it’ll be. Upping the hydration helps but is not the be all and end all. How much are you degassing the dough?
If you aren’t degassing then that’s not the issue. I thought you might be degassing too much when shaping into a round which might result in smaller bubbles.
Are you developing the gluten with plenty of kneading early on? Giving the dough long enough to regroup after shaping the balls? And shaping in a way that gives you a thick cornicione (fancy word for outer crust)? And using a hot preheated baking surface?
Try tinkering with those variables, one at a time.
Also maybe try using stronger 00 flour, like this one, which is 13.2% protein
@Fermentada Great rec, thank you!! I’m going to lessen my senora wheat and uses stronger 00. I’ve been using the blue caputo pizza flour and a 13.5 protein high bread flour (switching off)
I think at these steps lies my issue…(I’m using @anon44372566’s recommendation with autolyse as the first step
1: mix the bread flour (or 00) and senora (or wheat) in a bowl. Add in 425g water and mix just until there’s no dry flour left. Cover and let rest for 30 min - 1 hour.
** this step**
2: Sprinkle the salt over the dough, followed by the levain and olive oil. Dimple it all in then fold and squeeze the dough till everything is fully incorporated. Cover the bowl and leave to rest.
I think I’m not squeezing properly (or should I be kneading even?) lately when I’ve been doing this it doesnt look like everything is fully incorporated (i can see darker spots where levain is). That’s because I thought it shouldn’t be over worked at this point because my next steps are:
strech and fold 4 times
leave to ferment until doubled
shape
fridge until next day
How about including the levain in the autolyse and holding a bit of water back (about 20g)?
This way the levain will be fully incorporated. Just mix the levain in the water and stir till fully distributed. Then add the flour and mix till there are no dry bits left. Autolyse for 30 minutes. Then add the salt, pour the 20g water over the salt and begin to squeeze and fold the dough to get it incorporated. Once you’re satisfied its incorporated well add the oil and this time knead till the gluten is fully formed like @Fermentada does and suggests. Then cover and leave till doubled.
Agree on the hydration level and this appears to be 72%. That is 5% higher than I use for pizza dough.
A few other random suggestions:
Try reducing the water (perhaps to the 67%) and increasing the EVOO used. The EVOO you use seems low to me for making so much pizza dough.
Be careful to leave thicker dough at the edge of the pizza. I find this more important and more difficult to manage than avoiding degassing during fermentation.
and my speciality hasn’t been baking / bread and i want it to be!
