I wish I could answer your dough structure question with confidence. I’m enough of a scientist to observe, note, and modify; but not enough of a scientist to understand the why of my results much of the time. My off-the-cuff theory would be that the sugar in the apple sauce (as well as a bit coming off the dried fruit) does some good toward feeding the starter in the dough. So maybe the excess dough weight is buoyed somewhat by a good strong fermentation. Or we could chalk this up to the miracles and mysteries of bread baking.
You’ve inspired me to bake this bread again in the coming week, maybe trying some new nuts and fruit and also the cocao nibs @charlesvk and @peevee inspired me to buy a while back. Thanks for sharing your experience with the recipe!
It’s more typical to add all the liquids to the autolyse except for whatever you need to hydrate the amendments. I would probably do that and reduce the amount of water used by however much liquid is used elsewhere. After the first fold you simply destroy the gluten structure you developed by having to incorporate that much additional liquid.
Let me know how it goes! Keeping that structure intact is ideal. I wrote the recipe as a solid additions + bassinage sort of strategy but other approaches may work better.
So, I am in the middle of making this bread, & have a bit of a mess on my hands! My starter is strong. I weighed ALL the ingredients. I followed the instructions … at least I thought I did. I mixed the dough & let it have the initial rest. At the 1st fold/stretch, I found my dough to be VERY stiff - not wet as is indicated in the recipe & comments. I got to the 2nd fold, & it truly hadn’t changed in texture. I knew that incorporating the “additions” would be near to impossible by hand, so took Liz’s suggestion to use a mixer with a paddle. It took a LONG time to get the ‘additions’ incorporated. Now I have a VERY WET (oatmeal textured) dough/batter. I will proceed as per the instructions & hope that it firms up. I have been baking bread for decades (various methods) so will try to use intuition to sort this out … but WOW! … quite the change in moisture/texture. Fingers double crossed. … stay tuned.
Fingers crossed for you! The wetness after adding the apples etc doesn’t seem out of the ordinary for the recipe, but it is curious how stiff you found the dough to be before that. You used whole grain durum as the second wheat, right? Either way, hopefully the gluten comes back together nicely for you.
You’re probably are already planning this, but if it continues to feel wet, I’d do a cold final proof to stiffen it up and help it not stick to your basket.
Thanks Melissa, for the quick reply. You are correct, I have planned a cold final proof - mostly because of the texture, but also for the timing. (This dough takes a LONG time, … right?) It was nice to receive your thoughts, as a 2nd opinion/reassurance.
I confess that I did NOT use whole grain durum as the second wheat. (? oops) I didn’t have any, so used my freshly ground whole hard wheat flour. (I tried to put in a “worried” emoji here, but that didn’t work either)
Not much rise yet - at the 2 hour mark. Will let you know tomorrow.
Amazing. My bread turned out VERY WELL … despite the ridiculously wet dough that I turned out of the bowl after a 2 hour cold final proof. I moved the saggy mass around on a very floury board - there was NO WAY IN THE WORLD to do anything about surface tension. Baked as directed. AMAZING aromas! Baked it at 9:30 pm, so no one had access to it until morning. It rose quite high. Delicious - as promised. I got home after work to find that more than half the loaf had disappeared! (damn house elves!)
I wish I could click the “heart” 99 times!! It looks gorgeous and I am so happy to hear that it turned out well. I’ve baked bread for many years also and still, sometimes, I think … really, this will bake up ok?? and have been happily surprised many times. Kudos for following your baker’s intuition!!
I’m so glad it worked out and you’re enjoying the aroma and flavor.
I meant to reply earlier that I bet the durum vs traditional whole wheat is what made for the dry initial dough. Since you don’t want an even wetter final dough, I think you could get away with mixing everything at once to avoid that crazy stiffness at the beginning. When I make cranberry walnut bread, I mix everything at once to no ill effect on gluten development.
Thanks Melissa. I’ll try adding the applesauce, almonds, raisins (etc) during the initial mix next time, & see how it goes.
You mention cranberry walnut bread … but I can’t find a recipe on the Breadtopia site for it. Do you have it written somewhere online?
Katy
This is the framework and the baking strategy is the same as the apple almond raisin etc bread. Because the cranberries are unsoaked, the dough initially feels wet, but by the time you get to the shaping stage it’s pretty stiff. I usually skip the preshape and bench rest. It’s very packed with fruit and nuts. Sometimes I go 50/50 or 60/40 on bread flour vs. whole grain flour. Rye makes everything more sticky, so beware and skip when you’re not in the mood
300g whole grain flour (e.g. 200g red fife, 100g rye, whatever combination you want)
200g bread flour
400g water
140g dried cranberries
100g walnuts
75g sourdough starter
1.5 tsp salt
I baked this delicious bread this morning! It may have been noted by others but the bran flakes mentioned in the instructions are not listed under the ingredients. I substituted them with a light sprinkling of semolina. Next time I make this I may add some chopped soft dried apples to boost the apple flavor.
Beautiful bread. Semolina might even be a better flavor match than bran on the crust, and dried apples is great idea.
Thanks for the heads up about the bran flakes not being in the ingredient list. I’ll fix that.
Letting you know I updated the recipe in a few ways.
There are more video links and they go to Breadtopia’s latest posts on gluten development and shaping. And I re-did the formatting in the instructions to be more visually friendly…in case you print and want a better version.
@Fermentada Hi Melissa! I’d love to make this bread but am wondering about making it even though I don’t have all the ingredients. I’d still like to make something as close to the original as I can.
Can I substitute a different whole grain for the durum? I’ve got Turkey Red and Hard White Wheat.
I have no orange blossom water (had some years ago but not for a long time) or any oranges currently. Can I simply substitute some orange juice for a portion of the water?
On the plus side, I’ve got the applesauce and raw almonds! YAY!
I just baked my hubs his special cinnamon bread this morning. Now it’s my turn! I’d like to bake something special for me. I usually make my favorite cranberry pecan sourdough but I’m in the mood to try something different. I adore Middle Eastern cuisine so I’d love to try this bread. I’m hoping to prep a bread tonight and bake in the morning.
I think those substitutions sound good. With either of those wheats you’ll probably get a fluffier bread that will be a little browner in color. Orange juice instead of water sounds delicious.
@Fermentada Awesome, Melissa! I hope to bake one sometime this week. Plans for baking today got a little waylaid. Maybe I can prep it tonight and bake tomorrow. I’m looking forward to trying this bread.
