Small rises!

Hi
I have been baking ‘normal’ bread of various types for years and only recently ventured into the world of sourdough.

My starter smells fresh and bubbly. Typically it can get to 4 times larger within a day, I also make it quite stiff and it is soft and bubbly when I come to use it.

I have tried non needing and mixing/needing methods and I get an initial double the size rise and then it stops. I have tried a shourt prooving and up to a very long proove, no change

I cook in a fan oven at 230C and the bread get a lovely colour but does not want to rise any further.

Help would be very gratefully received

Thanks

Well, if you hadn’t said you tried a short proof, I would have said maybe the dough is over proofed and not enough left for oven spring.

Maybe a bit more information would get some responses:

what support does the dough have for the bulk?
what kind of vessel are you baking in? dutch oven, clay baker, on a stone or ???

More info on your entire process might help. And if you have photos, even better.

Hi and thanks for the reply.

I have not used any cloche or Dutch oven. Just a baking tray and yesterday I tried a standard loaf tin.

I think I am getting the message that for a normal home oven I really need to get a cloche or Dutch oven.

I have also tried various temperatures and cooking times.

I am thinking of going back to ‘normal’ bread making just to remove my frustration .

Thanks and regards

If you are done, you are done :), but just in case … an enclosed vessel gives the high moisture breads some support for the rise as does some sort of bowl or banneton for the bulk fermentation.

Up until a week ago, I used a 3 quart dutch oven (enamel) and my “banneton” was a foil bread pan that I stretched into an oval shape. I did just buy a clay baker from Breadtopia, but primarily because I wanted the oblong shape. I have made 2 loaves in the clay baker and like it for shape, bake and also for how light it is compared to the dutch oven.

Every kitchen, oven, location, flour mix … is different, but I found that a 12 hour room temp bulk, followed by a 12 hour to longer refrigerated time usually, I shape before refrigeration and then bake directly from the refrigerator into a hot oven/vessel. But if I store cold, unshaped dough, I will let it come to room temperature, shape and then bake or bake in the frig for a “bake from cold”. I get the best flavor and crumb with this longer method.

I typically bake at 500F (260C) for at least 10 min covered, then 450-475 (230-260C) for 15-25 min covered and then 10-15 minutes uncovered at same temp. The long range of 15-25 is dependent on the type of bread: whole grains and very moist doughs … longer.

My final thoughts … if you decide to try again, to consider this recipe which is sourdough plus commercial yeast and made in a bread tin, i.e. a sandwich loaf:

Sourdough sandwich loaf

On this site, the no knead sourdough is a basic recipe that works well for many starting their sourdough journey. Also on this site there is sourdough ciabatta which is supposed to be flat-ish (:)) and is baked on a stone or tray. AND, I’ve had good success and lots of fun with this “babka” dough. The recipe uses discard starter, but you can use your regular starter. I’ve make herb and cheese babkas, used the dough for naan, rolls and mini-loaves. I also use it for small pizza. I make a batch of dough and have it in the refrigerator always, just taking out what I need for whatever.

At any rate, if you decide to try again or another time, best wishes!

Hey Loafer:
I hope you will NOT give up just yet. You are at the right place to ask questions and to try certain things and advice, and you will find the path to success for your place.
I write this as I too am in a moment of discouragement, and only due to my stubborn nature, my downfall today is only driving me harder.
I am learning all to well that simple things can make a big difference, and going over my notes to learn there was nothing I could different as I am following one recipe to the Tee until I get my feet grounded. Doing this was to be sure that I could this successfully every-time, but I had not considered the one variable that I will have to in the future, the humidity here. On a dry day was success and today with high humidity, the dough is truly unmanageable.
Hang in there, and I would have to agree on baking a loaf or two you know are comfortable for you. Go make some personal encouragement and don’t let this new way get to you.
Look around your kitchen and maybe you will have a dutch oven that will work, or try the salvation army store, or DAV or other thrift shop, might find something perfect for your needs.
GOOD LUCK unto you
Tim