Hello, my old starter died and I’ve started a new one. It’s been at least a month of daily (occasionally twice to thrice) daily feedings.
I split the starter to whole wheat and and bread flour (it was originally bread flour and I didn’t get much if any rise though it smelled as it usually does) about two days ago. I baked today two loaves, same recipe:
50 g peaked starter
350 g warm water
500 g Bread flour
10 g salt
1 hr autolyze last night around 8.30 pm
Stretch and folds over the next two hours
Bulked in an oven with pilot light ar 72° F
This morning it hadn’t quite doubled so I let it go until 12 pm.
First shape and 10 min bench rest.
Gave tension and into banneton for 1.5 h to bulk. Still had domed shape good tension.
Into 450° F oven in cast iron for 30 minutes with lid. Then 30-40 min w/o.
Rested.
It was good flavored a bit sour but very flat. Looks like it didn’t ferment enough. Last time I let it go very far until it was doubled in a clear container. Same result. Flat bread big bubbles on top dense on the bottom.
Not sure if it’s bad oven spring or just under fermented bread.
With your twice to thrice daily feedings were you waiting for your starter to bubble up before feeding again or did you feed it come what may?
And what were these feeds like? What was the ratio? Bread flour starters will rise and if yours didn’t then it’s not something wrong with the flour but the starter itself.
Sounds like your starter lacks yeast and could do with more TLC with a regimen that will encourage more of a yeast growth.
Thank you for your comment. I forgot to include that. I fed the starter when it was peaked or as close as I could tell. That was easier with the whole wheat than with the bread flour as I saw very little activity.
My feeds were 1:2:2 Starter: Flour:Water
I’ve always had issues establishing bread flour starters. They hardly rise and they tend to have a rather strong fruity snake. Not acetone and there’s not much hooch.
What would you suggest as far as a feeding Regimin that would boost it’s activity?
What I don’t understand is why the wholegrain should bubble up but bread flour not so.
This method for making a starter is very effective. If you don’t have whole rye then by all means use your whole wheat.
What I would do is backtrack a bit before moving on. And as with all experiments split your starter in two, carrying on with feeding one starter (see method here * ) and trying this other method with your second starter. This way all your eggs are not in one basket.
For day one you can follow it exactly, albeit with whole wheat if you don’t have rye, and add a little of your starter into the mix. For example…
Day One. Initial Mix:
Whole-Rye (or Whole Wheat) Flour 136g (1.5 cups)
Water 170g (3/4 cup)
10g of your Starter
Honey 6g (1 tsp)
Mix the ingredients well, cover with plastic and let stand in a warm area (75° - 80°F) for 24 hours. Medium rye flour can be used in place of whole rye but avoid using white rye flour.
Then if you starter bubbles up within 12 hours go onto day two and onwards as it is written. If not then leave for the full 24 hours then go onto day two as it is written. Follow it through for the full process then try another bake for which I can give you a recipe for when the time comes. Then if all goes well we can discuss maintenance.
*While you’re doing that with your other starter try a simple 1:5:5 feed at 12 hourly intervals as long as it’s peaking within that 12 hours.
P.s. you can always start afresh using the Hamelman recipe if you want. So feed you starter 1:5:5 at 12 hourly intervals while starting on the Hamelman recipe as it is written. Up to you if you wish to add a little of your starter into it to give it a nudge in the right direction. It is also 125% hydration so expect it to froth more than rise especially as you begin to change over to bread flour. If you are concerned about your tap water you can use bottled or tap water that has been boiled and cooled!
There are benefits to keeping a larger amount of starter to propagate the yeast but not totally necessary. As long as you keep everything in proportion you can reduce the amount. More importantly keep it warm.
I see. As of now I’ve been feeding every 12 hours. I keep it in my boiler room as it’s the only spot in my house with the consistent temp required and as such I don’t see how soon it peaks. I’ll take a look over the next few days. As for the rise, it’s in a 1 qt flip top mason jar and it rises about a centimeter which doesn’t seem like much though its rather a wet starter from what I’m used to.
And at what level did it start? How much has it risen?
I think some photos would be very helpful. Take one just after feeding then another 6 hours later and we’ll judge it from that. It is a very high hydration starter so if it’s foaming a lot and it has a nice aroma that’ll be a good indicator too.
Within the next day or two you could try a bake and see how it does…
First of all… they may be a bit flat but i’m liking that crumb. Crumb tells me you got a good fermentation and your starter works! Which was the main reason for this test bake. Congratulations on your new starter.
How does it taste?
So let’s try one thing at a time. If we change too many things at once it’ll be more difficult to pin down what went wrong. I’d also advise to bake one loaf at a time while troubleshooting.
Now your starter is working you really don’t have to keep so much. I advise you, while you are eating up these two loaves, is to whittle it down to 80-100g and then storing it in the fridge. So do a feed of…
20g starter
40g water
40g flour
Use a small jar. Allow it to mature, it should rise but catch it before it falls, and store in the fridge.
Unless you wish to carry on feeding it.
With this 100g starter you can take some off to build a levain. And come what may once a week, whether you have run low or not, give it a feed. So say you’ve been busy baking and you’re down to 10-20g then give it another 40 - 50g each of water and flour, allow it to mature and refrigerate. If you haven’t been busy baking and you’ve still got a bit left then discard a little, give it a feed, allow it to mature and then back into the fridge it goes. When it comes to baking just take a little off each time to build a levain. Might sound a little complicated now but the more you use it the more second nature it’ll become. And no doubt before long you’ll keep it however you wish according to what suits your needs.
For the next bake try half the recipe (one loaf) and this time when you form the dough give it a knead for 10 minutes before carrying on with the recipe as given. If you are using a stand mixer then try kneading it for a bit longer so the dough is stronger before you start the bulk ferment. Let’s see if it’s gluten formation that’s the issue.
I’ll try again tomorrow. I’ve just made the levain tonight to sit.
I’ve always had an issue with what I thought was oven spring. Maybe my right want strong enough to being with. I used to bake higher hydration breads and do cool fold quite a few times to develop strength until I had a good windowpane.
So I followed the recipe. Had two issues with timing. Over bulked by two hours and over proofed by 1 in the basket. Otherwise, it seems good but actually it. It had good oven spring but some tearing. Do you think it’s underproofing?
