Learning curve along the winding road

I intended to make a LOAF of rye bread using the following recipe

2 Cups bread flour
1 Cup rye flour
1 Tablespoon sugar
1.5 Teaspoons salt
1/4 Teaspoon instant yeast
2 Tablespoons caraway seeds
1 Tablespoon EVOO
13 ounces cool tap water

I omited the instant yeast and in its placed I used 60 grams of sourdough starter. I discounted the flour and water from the above and ended up with this

210 grams bread flour
103 grams rye flour
12 grams sugar
1.5 Teaspoons salt
60 grams white bread starter
2 Tablespoons caraway seeds
1 Tablespoon EVOO
355 grams warm tap water

I mixed and let is sit overnight for 12 hours and got a good rise out of it. I folded it three times resting in between prior to baking.

My questions are

1: why was my dough still slack?> It wouldnt hold its shape.
2: should I have kneaded the dough to tighten the structure of the dough?
3: Was I correct in subtracting the water and flour in the starter from the recipes flour and water amount?

I put it in the covered pot and baked it for 30 minutes and took the lid off for three minutes. The crumb was nice and soft, but it was just a flat bread more or less, I wanted a round bread

Your input is more than welcome.

Your dough was very slack because there was about 343g of flour (in total including your starter) and 385g water which makes it over 100% hydration. On top of that you have olive oil. I’m not surprised.

1 cup of flour is about 120g so 3x is 360g give or take. 13oz of water is 369g. So I’m thinking it’s less hydrated than yours but will still be a very slack dough.

Still doable as a nice pan loaf with a mix, bulk ferment and then mould with wet hands into a bread pan. What was the instructions for the original recipe?

Yes, if you miss out the yeast and replace with sourdough then keep the total water and flour and subtract however much you use as starter.

This is a nice recipe from a great site. Check it out and the other recipes too. Don’t see why you cant use whole Rye if you don’t have white Rye. And when a recipe calls for both starter and yeast you can miss out the yeast no problem. Just watch the dough and not the clock.

Thanks for your input, guess I need to pay more attention to the bakers percentage rules. The original recipe was for a no knead bread. I wanted to turn the recipe into a sourdough sandwich bread. Now I think the water % should have been lower or the flour % higher.

I guess I was in too much of a rush. What can out was nice however the crumb was soft and flavourful

Thanks again

It looks very nice and flavourful I’m sure. The more rye in the recipe the higher hydration it’ll need. If too low then rye will get very dense and brick like. When you’re getting into high percentage rye you will be aiming for a clay like dough at 80%+ hydration. So a freestanding loaf will be moulded into a loaf shape and height will be compromised. Or it can be done in a loaf pan. I suggest you take a look at that site and recipe I’ve given you and try some of the recipes.