Basic Bread Pans

After about another 20 min. pulled the pan and the thermometer read around 220; done!
Had powdered the pan with bran meal before plopping the dough in, but wish I’d greased it; loaf was stuck hard and had to be pried out with a heavy duty steel spatula.


This is one heavy bread-brick! It about crushed the little kitchen scale so had to fetch the people scale out of the bathroom on which it weighed in at a hefty 3 pounds!

It doesn’t have a “crust” so much as a hard 1/2" thick shell; might not be bullet proof but possibly BB resistant at the very least.
Managed to peel back the shell and break a chunk off.

With my plastic dentures, eating it isn’'t happening; gave a few to the resident poodle, who brought them back to his bed under the table and gnawed on them. A Milk Bone dog biscuit is soft by comparison.

Having peeled back some of the shell, I took a serrated knife and sliced off a few slabs. It’s edible; not particularly good, but not all that bad either. Definitely chewy.


Chunks of the shell I’d torn off were tossed out in the yard so I can watch the crows and wild turkeys fight over them.
A big black crow just landed in a tree to check them out; came down, picked up a chunk… put it back down and took off towards the neighbor’s yard. Waiting to see how the turkeys like it…

Love your sense of humor and the sourdough-eating :dog2:

I’m not sure where things went wrong but “month old starter” made me wonder if it had been fed recently.

The long rise time is not unreasonable for sourdough, whereas your wife’s suggestion of doubling in an hour sounds appropriate for commercial yeast, not sourdough starter.

Great photographic documentation of the experience :slight_smile:

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Our of curiosity, I took a meat cleaver and chopped up a section of crust/shell into dice sized cubes before dumping a can of French onion soup on it, nuking it and letting it set for about 10 minutes. The chunks softened up and were really quite tasty - so I don’t need to feed it to the crows after all.

Late response, but buy the Lodge 5qt dutch oven on Amazon. $40 and it will last a lifetime for all but very largest boules. Use it upside down it also makes putting dough into a 500°F iron pot easy. I use parchment paper but mostly just because it makes cleanup so easy.

Have a couple of dutch ovens as well as a couple of iron pots, but I’m going for a conventional loaf configuration for sandwiches etc…
Loaf pan won’t fit inside the D.O, but I’m thinking of putting it inside a turkey roaster pan to see it that keeps the crust a little more managable - perhaps along with a bit of water in a measuring cup or something.
Last loaf of WW made dough in the bread machine; used a packet of yeast along with about .25 tsp of baking powder.
It rose a little but still came out heavy… Tasted great though!
Next attempt I’m going to lob in a big wad of sourdough, packet of yeast, and about a tsp of powder… Either going to get that dang loaf to rise or blow it all to splithers trying!
Have a putty knife all ready to scrape it off of the inside of the oven… or just fire up the self cleaning feature and incinerate it in place.
I’m just about crazy enough to enjoy this whole baking gig!

Hello again Jacque,

I hope you don’t give up because you have everything you could possibly need except maybe a digital scale and you’re very persistent.

I have a few ideas you could try: your dough looks like it may be too dry it looks like you may have either been too heavy handed on the flour or not enough water. Too stiff dough can definitely give you thick hard crust and inhibit rising too.

Also in your photo it looks like you are using two whole-wheat flours. I’m pretty sure the sprouted wheat flour in the green bag is a whole grain flour and theonein the brown and red bag is whole wheat for sure. Whole grain flours need quite a bit more liquid than white flour. If you use 100% whole wheat flour you will have a heavy dense loaf almost certainly. If you add not enough liquid to that you can easily get a brick.

Here’s my last idea: try using at least 2/3 while flour and only 1/3 whole wheat. Make sure your dough feels soft and resilient , not stiff. Go ahead and knead it inyour breadmachine even if you are going to bake it in a pan in the oven. Use your yeast until you get a successful bread loaf. It’s much easier to start out with a yeast loaf in the beginning and there’s quite a few yeast recipes on this website. Go ahead and keep your sourdough starter going so you can be ready to use it later. use it later. In fact, just put a big spoonful of it in your dough right along with the yeast. It can’t hurt and there’s no rule that says you can’t put both in. It might even improve the flavor a bit!

If your bread machine came with a recipe book—use a recipe from it with the mostly white flour version. The turkey roaster would be a good way to keep some moisture around your loafpan if it’s tall enough and has enough headroom for the bread to rise. You won’t need to put water in the roaster because the steam from the bread cooking will be enough.

If your dough is moist enough and you are baking in a bread pan, it’s not really necessary to put any water in your oven at all or use an enclosed pan.

The suggestion someone else gave to try Eric’s original no knead recipe using yeast that is posted on the website is a good idea. It was posted a long time ago—maybe even in 2010, but you can still find it listed under the recipes as No Knead bread with yeast.

I love your dog Muffin. She seems to be enjoying your bread just fine!

Soldier on, buddy. Your persistence will pay off!

Cheers

Jacque,

I forgot to say—definitely grease whatever loaf pan or dutch oven if you use it. If you use the nonstick pan and grease it too, the bread will fall right out, no problem. And use the smallest loaf pan you have—your bread will be taller when it rises in a smaller pan. :wink:

Many thanks for your kind and expert advice!

About half way through the last brick of WW - it’s actually quite good when dissolved in the bottom of a bowl of soup or as in last night juicy stew.
Must confess I broke down and bought a professionally baked loaf at the grocery yesterday - what I call “bird seed bread” since it has about 15 grains and seeds all through it - which surprisingly enough my plastic choppers don’t have any problems with. Main attraction is it’s slices are big enough to make a respectable “Dagwood” sandwich out of.
Still think the flavor of my home baked bricks is better though!
My main objective in trying to learn baking is to bake einkorn bread, since a friend told me his mental functioning seems to be improving since he’s been off of gluten, and our Daughter and her kids seem to be gluten intolrerant. Apparently that stuff takes some special skills to bake as well.
In the mean time I want to bake some “Biblical” barley cakes like they used around Judea back in the day (1st C. or so) from flour I ground up in the old “CORONA” mill.

The first run was rugged; both hands on the crank and got a good work out!
Next grind moved the plate in a little and cranked easier.
Would NOT want to rely on this to supply a commercial bakery or even a large family!

Hello Jaque,

You do have some great tools for baking. I have wished I had a grain mill just “because”, meaning a fun experiment, but I don’t have one because it really is an extravagance for me.

Here is the bad news about einkorn–it is a very early prototype of wheat as we know it today. It does have gluten, just not the type that forms a good structure to capture the carbon dioxide that any type of yeast gives off. That is why einkorn needs to be used with some kind of “modern” wheat flour to get it to leaven (or rise) in bread baking.

The good news is that just like barley cakes, if you want an unleavened bread, you can use 100% einkorn. In fact this was the most common type of “bread” that ancient wheats and other grains were used to make–just flat unleavened cakes of dough. If you get the formula of water to flour right and don’t bake them too long, they can be more like a tortilla or any other flatbread, and very edible. The einkorn will still contain gluten though.

I use barley flour too, just not more than say 25%, along with some other gluten containing flour. I like its taste a lot. I would probably like it in the form of barley cakes as well, and I may just try it that way since you have reminded me! I have a little bag of barley flour that I ordered from Bob’s Red Mill that needs to be used up before it goes stale. I will probably put some olive oil or lard in the dough though, like making tortillas. Besides taste, adding a small amount of some kind of fat makes the dough much easier to manipulate and will make the bread not go stale as quickly.

Oat cakes that used to be a staple in Scotland, Ireland and Northern England are made the same way–just oat flour, water and salt. Oat flour, like barley flour, has zero gluten in it. I don’t like the oat cakes much even though I love cooked oatmeal. I think they must be an acquired taste from a young age.

I grew up from childhood eating unleavened whole wheat flour “bread” my mother made for religious occasions owing to some biblical reference to it. I still love whole wheat flour used that way, but nobody in my own family will eat it–they consider it really awful tasting. Tortillas are just flour, water, some oil or lard, and everyone seems to love them, including me, and they are totally unleavened. I believe you could use any type of flour (for instance, the barley flour you have just milled) to make a tortilla-like “bread”.

You just have to experiment, exactly like you are doing right now. You could also use brown rice flour or oat flour or some of the other fancier non-wheat, non gluten grains popular right now in the same way. Food for thought if you are wanting to make a healthy bread product for your children, grandchildren or yourself that contains whole grains and is also gluten-free.

Would they eat it if it is unleavened–who knows? Worth trying anyway.

There are pre-mixed gluten free substitutes for wheat flour that you can use with commercial yeast and sourdough yeast, but I have never used them. I see boxes in the grocery store that say they will make a gluten-free risen loaf of bread that looks just like a risen wheat loaf. I don’t know if they contain whole grains or refined grains, though.

I would like to hear how the barley cakes turn out, so I hope you post about the results when you make them.

If you decide to return to bread making efforts with either regular yeast or sourdough yeast, I wanted to tell you that I happen to have an extra digital scale that I quit using because it doesn’t use regular batteries, and when it stopped working I thought it was broken so I got a scale that uses AA batteries. I did replace the small lithium batteries in it just this week because otherwise it is useless to me or anyone else. It is working just fine now, and the batteries last a long time–much longer than AA batteries. I would be happy to send it to you just to put it back in use and help out a fellow bread maker. I think you would find it makes a huge difference to measure your flour and water by weight instead of cups. At least I did.

Cheers

Thanks for the offer - I used a bathroom scale on my einkorn brick as it about crushed the little scale I scrounged out of late Mother in Law’'s box of stuff.
Noticed the Boss on the you tube tutorials here just sort of throws stuff in by guess & b’gorry - bakes by the seat of his proverbial apron.
That’s kinda how I cook, so doubt I’ll be sweating a half oz. here or there.
I do have a box of King Arthur gluten free flour in the fridge, which I might combine 50/50 with WW or EK to see how it rises.

Gluten Free flour:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/products/gluten-free-bread-and-pizza-mix/

Pitch in about half a jar of starter, a packet of yeast, some probiotic kombucha or some of that old home brew down in the basement - proof it for about 6 hours and see how she rises. (Reminds me of that old Sea Chanty “Drunken Sailor”… matter of fact I may have to adapt a Pumping chanty for my grain grinder).

Speaking of which, I only paid about $40 for my old So. American Corona on e-bay. You can get cheap Chicom replicas on Amazon but I wouldn’t trust 'em.
one can sink big bux into the newer sophisticated ones - i like old school. Besides; I need a little exersize now & then.

@Jaque_Clarke

The all einkorn sourdough recipe is on it’s way, I promise. Here is a pic of two test bakes.

@kmollyone234

I love your ideas for barley and oat cakes/breads. I agree that einkorn has a very different feel from modern wheat, no stretchiness by itself, but it can be made into a delicious and nice-textured bread. I’ve been playing around with hydration and oven temp, but none of my five test bakes has been bad.

In one test loaf, I literally poured the dough from the fermenting bowl into the loaf pan. Similar to what I did in this gluten free buckwheat bread recipe. At lower hydration, I could manually roll the dough a bit, but the crumb was a little tighter, the usual trade off.

Here are two middle of the road loaves.

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Melissa,

Those loaves look great–very much like my sourdough 100% spelt loaf (I love the taste of spelt, its my favorite whole grain) which I also had to pour into my romertopf baker. It was huge because I couldn’t do any thing with it at all, it was so stretchy, so I just poured all of it–a two loaf size dough–into the baker. I’m still eating it a week later and it’s still pretty fresh, but the top flattened out in the baker although it had a nice looking crumb, very much like your einkorn in the pics. Is that a mix of flours or 100% einkorn?

I would love to have your recipe too so I could use up the rest of my einkorn :slight_smile:
I don’t have fridge space enough to keep whole grain flours so I have to use them pretty quickly.

Spelt is crazy extensible :slight_smile: short bench rest for that wheat! You might try this recipe though. The hydration is manageable and you can get boule or batard out of it. https://breadtopia.com/spelt-bread-recipe/

Yes, I’m doing 100% whole grain einkorn even down to the feeding of the sourdough starter. I used a loaf pan so i could get a nice wet fermentation going.

I hear you - refrigerator space is a hot commodity in my house too :slight_smile:

Jaque,

That’s a very interesting idea there of combining the GF flour with WW or EK. I would love to know what happens–does it rise and what does it taste like?

I always put both beer and vinegar in rye bread because my husband likes it really tangy. I have even tried putting in Kefir–that didn’t come out so well–tasted funny. And I’ve been experimenting with putting a huge amount of rye starter in rye bread, based on a German lady’s method that I saw on Youtube. I like the WOW sourdough flavor and the odd thing is that a really large amount of starter has not made the dough ferment any faster or change its oven spring that I can tell–at least not in the fridge, which is where I put it after mixing until I’m ready to bake it.

Melissa,

Thanks for the link to the video and recipe for the whole spelt bread–I’m going to try the Spelt/Kamut variation posted after the video. That way I can use up some more of my Kamut that’s clogging up the fridge right now.

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Perfect timing for me. I tried a 100% einkorn sourdough for the first time last weekend and it was a complete failure.

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Here’s my 2nd attempt at bread making - Whole wheat.
Came out pretty well, all things considered:

I notice you seem to refer to “fermentation” as opposed to “Proofing” almost as though you’re brewing your bread.
Curious as to times of fermentation between mixing and baking.
Its almost as though those WW grains have to form a batter like consistency as opposed to conventional “dough” in order to absorb the moisture.
Kinda hard to knead batter, so I guess that’s not so much an issue.

Next time I get a couple of cups of einkorn ground up may mix it with an egg, some olive oil, warmed almond milk, dash of salt, shot of molasses and whisk it into a nice batter. Pour it into baking pan and fire off @ around 375 for a half hour or so.
Might hide the pan inside the aluminum turkey roaster… if it fits.
All kinds of experimentation in the que!

Well, at least I’m not the only one baking bricks! We could get together and build a chimney!

Having researched einkorn for a while now I get the distinct impression that it’s “different” - not for sissies, and there is a definite trick to it.
Having only baked one armor - plated brick of it, I’m not in any position to go giving advice - but others have said that the dough needs to be wetter than normal as the flour soaks up a lot of water as it cooks and acquires an iron clad crust as it dries out…
Mine sure did!
A friend’s Wife bakes EK for her health-foodie clientelle, and he raves about clearer thinking an more energy since he’s been eating it.
I’m going to keep researching and experimenting with it - think it’s worth it.

@SingKevin I’m glad my recipe will be timely!

@Jaque_Clarke Yes, fermentation through yeast or sourdough culture consuming sugars and starches in the flour is how bread is leavened/risen. (Baking soda/powder is usually for “quick breads” like banana bread or muffins.)

All the recipes on this site give fermentation times. The times are usually broken into two chunks: the first rise (then you shape the loaf) and the final proof.

But what’s happening the whole time is fermentation. And if you don’t let it happen you will get a brick :slight_smile:

I recommend you check out this article to get a deeper understanding of fermentation in bread baking, and why the times are often given as ranges, rather than precise numbers (temp, h2o, flour type, starter strength all factor in).

I bake in the Dollar Store metal pans with a trick. I invert a second pan and use as a lid, removing after 30 minutes. Spray bottom pan with oil first. Before putting on the lid, spray a stripe down the center of the dough and then indent the dough with a spatula and it will split along that line.

John, The Renegade Baker