3rd Time Not A Charm

(Stuart) #1

This is the third try at making a loaf with 100% sprouted fresh ground flour. It was all home sprouted hard red wheat. It obviously did not have hardly any oven spring. During the stretch and fold stage of dough development it seemed like the gluten did not hold after the stretches. The final fermentation was in a banneton and when it was turned out into the Dutch oven it collapsed never to spring back. The crumb is very moist and gummed up the knife when slicing even though the bread was thoroughly cooled. The flavor is still very good. At this point I think my problem may be in the sprouting and drying procedure used. I am ordering some sprouted berries from Breadtopia to eliminate that possibility. Of course the other possibility is that my basic bread procedure is not comparable with sprouted flour.


(Melissa) #2

So frustrating!

With your baking experience, I can’t imagine it’s process. I’ll be interested in seeing loaf #4 either way.

I hope the bread is good toasted – I imagine that cures the gumminess.

(Stuart) #3

A while back I tried to make an artisan style loaf out of 100% Einkorn, it really never worked to my satisfaction, this kind of feels like that except not as many loaves have been tried yet. The bread is tasty even without toasting so not all is bad. Thanks for your encouragement.

(Paul) #4

That frisbee loaf picture sure looks like what I have experienced trying to do 100% einkorn (and emmer too, fwiw). I think those grains just don’t have enough gluten in them to create the elasticity needed to get a good rise.

Assuming that your “control” loaf was the same berries as the ones you are sprouting for these flat ones, it sure sounds like your sprouting and drying process is somehow messing with the dough’s gluten formation.


(Stuart) #5

Yes. That is what the all Einkorn loaves tended to be like. I agree with your notion suspecting my sprouting and drying. To find out, some sprouted berries(the same that Melissa had luck with) have been ordered and I am sprouting some so a comparison bake of two half sized loaves can be done simultaneously enabling a real time comparison between the two doughs and loaves. Results to come in a couple days I hope.

(Melissa) #6

Does your process have a long autolyse? I was reading more about sprouted grains, and how the enzymatic activity is higher in the resulting dough, and so a long autolyse could risk more gluten breakdown.

(Stuart) #7

I think there must be something else going on. The picture is of two loaves done yesterday, the one on the left was made with Breadtopia’s sprouted wheat and the one on the right was made with home sprouted. They were done side by side with virtually the same timing and exactly the same ingredients except for the flour. Obviously the home sprouted had compromised gluten which could be felt during the stretch and fold stage and really showed itself when trying to shape the boule the dough was so sticky that it was almost unmanageable. So the sprouting and dehydrating process is suspect. There is not much that can go wrong during the sprouting, it either does or not, so I am concentrating on the dehydrating. What has been used is a cheap thing that was picked up on a whim from Aldi. It has no temperature control and no fan, really it is just a low temp oven with holes in the lid to allow moisture to escape. It actually has done an admirable job drying a lot of friuts and vegetables despite being so poorly constructed but it was time for an upgrade.Just this past week dehydrators went on sale at one of the stores I frequent so I got one with a top mounted fan and heating element that also has a thermostat. I hope that drying the sprouted grain at different temps will prove enlightening. Looks like more sprouting is in my future. The home sprouted grain in this trial was dried in the old dehydrator.

I just realized I forgot to answer your question. There is a preferment using about a third of the flour that usually take 3-4 hours but otherwise the autolyse is not lengthy, just long enough to hydrate the flour 20 minutes or so.

(Melissa) #8

I’m glad you have some tall bread and have resolved part of the mystery. Good luck with the new dehydrator. It will be interesting to hear what temps and process work.

Good to know about the preferment and your 20-minute autolyse. It sounds like the gluten isn’t all that delicate / impacted by the enzymatic activity in the Breadtopia sprouted flour. I’ve also done around a 20 minutes autolyse with no problems.

(Stuart) #9

I’ve got some white wheat sprouting now. Interesting twist, the home sprouted loaf has a sweeter more wheaty(if that’s a word) taste than the boughten. Its as if the enzymes had broken out more sugars.

(wendyk320) #10

I’ve been following your comments on the sprouted grain breads with interest. I tried several sprouted loaves quite a few months ago with very similar results to yours, Stuart. Unfortunately, I can’t find my notes on those breads, but I remember that one of the attempts was the first loaf I’ve baked that went straight to the compost bin because it was inedible. From what I remember, the dough was an oozy mess and the loaves were flat and gummy. The texture was so unappealing I really don’t remember how it tasted. My first several attempts were with my own home sprouted and milled flour. Suspecting that my sprouting process was amiss, I purchased some commercial whole grain sprouted wheat flour and tried again. Same result. I was so frustrated, I gave up, but seeing the beautiful results you’ve achieved, Melissa, has convinced me to try again. Good luck with your trials, Stuart, I’ll be following your progress closely, hoping that it will help me solve my disasters.

(Stuart) #11

Glad for your corroboration. I dried the newly sprouted grain at 100F and will be making the bread later today. Results will be following.

(Jonathan Mandel) #12

I bake exclusively with grain I sprout and dry myself. A few things that might help.

Sprout minimally. You want to see the sprout beginning to emerge and that’s all.

Dry at less than 115F. Most dehydrators are uneven, so I leave some room or the top of the temp range: I set mine to 105F and dry for 18 hours. Compare dry weight before sprouting to weight after drying to make sure it’s really dry.

Do not over hydrate. 82% works for me.

Ferment carefully. I bulk to 1.6x and proof 60 min at 70F, then 40 min cold.

(Stuart) #13

Thanks Jonathan,

Everything I do is pretty much in line with what you outline except the fermentation. I am beginning to think that must be the key. On the last attempt which was two days ago the dough was a little underproofed and it still collasped maybe I need to go even quicker. How do you leaven your bread?

(Jonathan Mandel) #14

I’m happy to tell you what I do. And, baking with sprouted grains is a matter of discovering what works. Not sure this will make the difference. That said, here.

All grain sprouted as previously described. Milled on Mockmill 200 at finest setting.

Hard red wheat from Azure Standard, 60%. Khorasan from KGBS 30%, spelt from KGBS 10%, all whole.

Levain 10% of flour weight.
Filtered Water 82%
Salt 2.5%

Using stand mixer with paddle, mix levain and water. Add flour and mix on speed 1 for 1 minute. Cover and autolyse 40 min.

Add salt. Mix with spiral 5 minutes on speed 1. Rest 5 min. Mix 5 min.

Stretch and fold 4 times at 20 min intervals. Then ferment to 1.6x. Use a container in which you can see fermentation progress, like HDX from Home Depot. Optional retard.

Divide to 750g. Preshape to ball, cover and bench rest about 30 min (depending on ambient temperature and dough feel). Shape tight, invert into banneton, proof 60 min at rt, then 40 min cold. Bake at 450F in preheated DU 17 min, 21 min uncovered.


(Stuart) #15

Thanks for your process.

(Jonathan Mandel) #16

Here’s the picture I tried to add before.

(Stuart) #17

Looks wonderful.

(Leah) #18

That’s gorgeous!!!